Asef Quader on Overcoming Cancer, Mindset, Perspective, & Resilience
Welcome to Resiliency the podcast. I am your host, Jenn Quader. I would like to introduce my beautiful, wonderful, brilliant, and amazing co host, Doctor. Kelly Culver, as always happy to have you. So today we have a really interesting guest with an impressive resume in resilience.
Jenn Quader:He has lived through the decimation of every cell in every bone in his body. Now, that happened at the age of 34 when he underwent a bone marrow transplant in a hopeful last attempt to treat a persistent blood cancer, and it worked. Just twelve months later, much to the surprise of his medical team, he crossed the finish line of a triathlon. Since then, he's grown his skills in corporate communications, holding several positions in the health care sector, And today, he draws on his earlier educational background in film and strategic storytelling to direct a a pretty darn good podcast from what I've heard all around the world. Now this today's guest is a lifelong Californian.
Jenn Quader:Oh, and, you know, right here in my script, it says his greatest accomplishment is his wife of nearly fifteen years, Jen Quater. That's right. Wow. What a surprise, my dear. You know, thank you.
Jenn Quader:Of course. So everyone, please welcome our own co creator, producer, and today's guest, mister Asef Quader.
Asef Quader:Hello.
Jenn Quader:It sounds
Asef Quader:I was have
Dr. Kelly Culver:a little more enthusiasm than Asef.
Asef Quader:Well, I was I was told that I had to say that Jenn was my most, what's the word she used? Impressive Greatest accomplishment. Accomplishment. Yeah. Greatest accomplishment under fear of physical abuse.
Jenn Quader:Yeah. Yeah. We can't put that out in the public sphere, my love.
Asef Quader:Sorry. Sorry. Jen is my greatest accomplishment. And I
Jenn Quader:Honey, be more be more resilient. Come on.
Asef Quader:No. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for making me do this. I appreciate it.
Dr. Kelly Culver:We're delighted to have you, and I'm not sure that we're making you do this. Like, just to I'm gonna do a real fast recap to our listeners. So for for our our listeners on resiliency the podcast, it is, October 2024. I'm gonna put the date in the sand. Jen and Asif and I only met the March when we were in Paris because Jen and I were, giving a TED talk at the American University of Paris' resilience redefined.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And we met, we gelled, we clicked, we said we need to do a podcast. And it was Asif who went back to California, created the treatment sheet, and here we are. So as we're having a conversation amongst family and the road has been super fast, and not not very long. So with that intro, Asif, here's the question. What does resilience mean to you?
Asef Quader:Oh, you know, what's funny is that when we did this, we started the podcast, when I sat down and wrote a treatment for, what does the resiliency of the podcast, I, I wrote an elevator pitch for this. And the elevator pitch was you're standing on a cliffside overlooking the ocean and you see a storm coming and it's big and it's strong and you see the lightning and the thunder and the rain and the waves are crashing and when the storm hits you, everything in your life is gonna be different. How are you gonna be at the end of it? Are you gonna be able to look around and smile and know that everything is gonna be okay? And that to me is what resilience is.
Asef Quader:Resilience is knowing that when that storm hits and there is always a storm in everyone's life, that when it passes, everything's gonna be okay. Everything's gonna be fine. I think it's adaptability. I think it's knowing that there's community around you, that everything that everything in life changes. Everything in life is different.
Asef Quader:Every day, something changes even little minuscule bits or a lot. But we live, and we find happiness again, and it's going to be okay. To me, that's what resilience is.
Jenn Quader:That's a beautiful definition because it like life, resilience is is ever changing. You know? It what we need to face that storm might be different at different times in our lives. And you are someone who was diagnosed with cancer at a very young age. And so I I wanna bring you actually right down into the trenches.
Jenn Quader:I kinda wanna start there. And I wanna ask, you know, a little bit if you could just start by giving us a little history. You know, in in your intro, we talked about how you reached this point of of a bone marrow transplant. But what was your history in in getting diagnosed with cancer? And and then what was your reaction to that diagnosis at the time as you saw that storm approaching?
Asef Quader:Well, this the short history, the abridged history, is in 02/2008, Jen and I had just met. I wanna say maybe not even a year, ago in our early part of our relationship. And we were together in North Carolina. I was very sick, very ill. We didn't know what was going on.
Asef Quader:We went to a doctor, and the doctor said I had, really severe allergies. They gave me some pills. I went home and threw those pills up. I remember sitting on the bathroom floor looking at Jen. I'm like, I don't think it's allergies.
Asef Quader:We went to another doctor and they did some blood work and they said, Oh, well, you know what? It's cancer. I you hear cancer and of course the first thing that comes to your mind is is some sort of fearfulness. But in my case, it was of course fearfulness, but it was also some relief Because I had been sick for a couple months and I didn't know what was going on. So when they first told me you have cancer, it was like, okay, okay, great.
Asef Quader:Now we know what it is. What do I do? How do I attack this? What do I do? I am the type of person I am not a woe is me type of person.
Asef Quader:So when someone tells me something that is kinda bad musish, I want to know what how do we solve it? How do we solve the problem? I wanna come up with a plan very quickly. Sometimes that's can be bad because I wanna rush things too quickly. But in this case, it was I need to form a plan to make myself feel better.
Asef Quader:So I wanted to just figure out what's the next step. What how do we solve it? Let's go let's go kill this thing. Let's go attack it with all we have. My fearfulness, funny enough, was I was scared to tell the people I loved, my my family and my friends.
Asef Quader:Because I knew that I didn't wanna make them feel bad. And I know that they would feel bad when they heard this diagnosis. Jen can talk more about that because she was there next to me during this time. And, she was my bulldog. She was the one who was my not only my support, but, I mean, she fought tooth and nail for me during that entire stretch.
Asef Quader:In fact, she'll probably be able to tell you more of this story than I will because as, Kelly, I know you have a very big experience going through this battle as well, and you were the gen to your husband. And when you're going through cancer, you're going through these treatments, body really well and you forget a lot of things. The chemo can make your can scramble your brain really good.
Jenn Quader:Yeah. I I think that's a perfect segue though because that, you know, chemotherapy and radiation and the way that cancer is treated, and this was something that was so fascinating to me while we did go through this. And I was beside you through all of this, and and my eyes were really open. I mean, I can remember us walking into the we'd been referred to an oncologist, and we're sitting down and they're, you know, taking his vitals. And they said, is this your first cancer?
Jenn Quader:And I was like, who said cancer? You know? Like, I I I I I we didn't even know that yet. We still felt so new. You know?
Jenn Quader:But but you mentioned chemo. We're talking about this. The the idea is when you have a cancer in your body, you have to poison it. You know? Like, you have to put in poison that will actually kill this thing, and that is the the real counterintuitive ness of of chemotherapy and radiation.
Jenn Quader:So my question to you is while you're in in the process of as a your body is being poisoned in order to heal. Right? And you're feeling a lot of physical pain. I I recall that very clearly that every single chemotherapy has its own list of side effects that are just horrific, like a like a nightmare movie. You know?
Jenn Quader:Just horrible things that happen to you physically. And so I wanna ask you, you know, on the topic of resilience, how did you balance your mental energy with that physical pain?
Asef Quader:You know, it's an interesting question. We've talked ad nauseam almost about how important community is in resilience. And having that community around you during that time was very important to me. Having you, Jen, was important to me. My friends and my family who would, call me every day, would come and visit, who would send me things, who would just give me notes of encouragement every day, was important knowing that you're loved and supported.
Asef Quader:So important. For me, there was something I did every day from almost as soon as I started going through chemo through my bone marrow transplants, sitting in a hospital room for the three weeks alone, that I had to do every day. And that was inspire myself. And not just inspire myself, I wanted to get that kick of adrenaline every day. That some I wanted I needed to watch something.
Asef Quader:I needed to listen to something. I needed to be inspired to get that little juice going in myself. I don't know if there's any sort of medical evidence behind it or anything like that, but I really think that that little kick of adrenaline helped me every day, every day. It it it really helped heal me. It helped inspire me.
Asef Quader:It helped battle, the cancer. And people talk about this all the time. Cancer is is a negative disease. It's a disease that feeds off negativity. If you feel sorry for yourself, if you're feeling negative, feeling depressed, cancer feeds off that.
Asef Quader:So I needed to I needed to battle it, not with negativity, but with positivity and humor and laughter and just not get bogged down with woe is me or I feel bad today, I wanna be depressed. And that's all fine, you know, that's that's a natural reaction to to cancer. It's hard not to get depressed when you are feeling worn down. But like I said, I got into a battle with cancer and I know, people will my friends will hear this and and say, what's he talking about? I I used to be a very competitive person.
Asef Quader:I don't feel I'm as competitive as I used to be. But when I get into a competitive mindset, I will not let I will not let you beat me. I will not let cancer beat me. So as soon as I get into a negative, mindset, that that competitive spirit would kick in, and I'd be like, nope. Not today, cancer.
Asef Quader:You know? I'm gonna get myself inspired. I'm gonna listen to something. I'm going to get this adrenaline pumping in me. I'm not gonna let you beat me.
Asef Quader:Let's go.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And I and I think what you've just described for us, you know, are some of the strategies that you used, in order to remain resilience, become resilient, as you as you move through the journey that you were on. But, Jen, what question were you going to ask?
Jenn Quader:Well, I just what I wanted to to as he's talking about kind of the physical reactions and and and kind of how he stayed focused on on the end goal, and I was really formulating your question, I think. So so forgive me for taking a moment here, but I think what I'm trying to get to is, like, you know, there's so many people who who who fight this battle, and there are these daily things you have to to look at. And I I I tend to ask a lot of our guests this question. But, like, what was the carrot for you is is what I wanna ask. But what was the end result?
Jenn Quader:Meaning, were you trying to get to the cure or were you trying to get just to the next hurdle? Like, like, did you, did you take it in phases? How did you mentally break down this huge disease, you know, and, and then, and, and, and make that competitive for your self because so many people do get pulled under, you know, with this type of thing.
Asef Quader:Yeah. You know, I don't know if there's a carrot necessarily, if there was a, end goal other than beating cancer. You know, that was the ultimate goal. But you like like I said in the very beginning, our relationship was very new. Our relationship was we were in the golden age of our relationship, and it was a very gold age.
Asef Quader:That made it very easy to be positive during that time. I've told many people this that, when I was going through cancer, Jen and I just moved in together. I was happy. I was really, really happy. I found the girl of my dreams.
Asef Quader:I was I I sure I had cancer, but I remember being very happy. I remember having, it was hard not to be happy. I I had a a fantastic, talented, beautiful, smart lady who was in love with me. I was getting calls from my friends and family on the daily telling how much they love and believe in me. It was hard not to be like, this is pretty awesome.
Asef Quader:Life is pretty good. Sure. I have cancer. Sure. I have chemo, you know, three, four times a day.
Asef Quader:But, you know, the good outweighs the bad in this point. I was I was really happy. It was really easy to to be positive during that time. The carrot was, was being in a relationship. The carrot was wanting to start a life with what was going to be my future wife.
Asef Quader:The carrot was was was that. Plus, because I'm a competitive person, the carrot was, to quote Game of Thrones, telling death not today.
Jenn Quader:Well and and I think that that that is because I I I wanna kinda paint the picture too as I'm thinking about it because it sounds it sounds so lovely from your perspective, meaning, like, the the love was there. And and and I think that that is that that is true, that all of that was there. I equally feel like I I've told people too. I feel like we had, Asif and I had our relationship backwards. So Mhmm.
Jenn Quader:You tend to meet people who've been married for, you know, fifty years and they say, oh, well, we just went through this cancer battle together. Well, we did it like we had been dating for seven months, you know. And I remember very vividly the moment where we're still dating and and, like, we are talking about treatment and what it's gonna be. And I had to really sit and think like, am I am I in for this or am I not? You know?
Jenn Quader:And I just and I remember the visual for myself was, like, buckling up into a a roller coaster because I thought this will be a roller coaster. Like, this will be very different. And it was. It was extremely, extremely difficult, you know, financially and, and and just health and worry and and, like, clean. You had to keep everything so clean because of germs.
Jenn Quader:I mean, there's so many things that you that I I want people to understand because it really is so important that you understand how hard life is when you wanna look at the lens of resilience. Because it's so easy to think, oh, well, that person's resilient just because they they have it easier than me. You know? But, really, you just were able to kind of see some of the light in in your life alongside having all that pain. And and one of the points you brought up was was humor.
Jenn Quader:And I think that's a really important piece and something we should touch on. So I'll, I'll tell you a story, Kelly. I'll tell you, Doctor. Kelly, I'm gonna tell you this story while our listeners watch. Cause I think it's, it's a fun one because you have to have a little visual on this.
Jenn Quader:So, also, we'd be like, you know, just hanging out and it'd be and, you know, chemo is one of those things where you you and you know this. You have it. You feel bad. But then the next week, you're you're feeling okay until it's time to have it again. So we're in one of the feeling okay times, and he would sit on the couch and he'd say, oh, babe.
Jenn Quader:Would you get me that remote control? I have cancer. Every time. Every time. So Milton
Asef Quader:Not just Jen. I use that on everybody. On everybody. Even past after like, I'll do it years later. Like, you know, someone will be sitting in a chair.
Asef Quader:I'm like, can I sit there? I had
Jenn Quader:cancer. It's like, it's just your way. It's your way.
Asef Quader:You gotta play it.
Jenn Quader:Well, look. I I I I wanna frame it into a question, and and it's this. I I've also been through a lot of leadership training. And in those trainings, I've learned a lot. Like, to be a good leader, you actually can't take life too seriously.
Jenn Quader:You can't hold so tight that you everything has to be the way you want it. And so what I wanna ask you is you seem to have that quite naturally, this ability to look at a very serious storm and laugh in its face a little bit. I wanna ask first, where did that come from? And also, secondly, can we talk about skillfully using humor?
Asef Quader:Well, I think you have told me many times, I'm not sure if I use it skillfully.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenn Quader:That's why I asked a question.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Poor Oscar.
Asef Quader:Poor Oscar. Poor Oscar. Feel bad for poor Oscar.
Jenn Quader:He had cancer. Yeah. That's what his little face would do.
Asef Quader:I don't know. You know? I think I think where did it come from? I you're probably in a a self protection sort of place that's, you know, probably sitting down with a therapist would help figure that out. But you you definitely I I use humor as a defense mechanism.
Asef Quader:I think a lot of people do that. Passive aggressive. Let's laugh at laugh at the face of danger because what else am I gonna do? I can't say that there's any sort of thing that happens in my life specifically that made me, just a humoristic person. I kind of was raised with some really good friends and family that we all love to laugh, and we have a good time laughing.
Asef Quader:And, I like laughter. I like hanging out with people. I like being friendly with everybody. I I firmly believe that my motto my motto in life is is is don't be a dick. Just life would be much better if everyone just had that motto in life.
Asef Quader:Like, you don't even have to be good. Just don't be a dick. Just be friendly to people. Give a friendly smile and a and a happy hello. Don't even need that much.
Asef Quader:To answer your question, I don't know. I just I I I guess I I was born that way.
Jenn Quader:Well, I I think one thing though because we're talking about skillful use of of this skill of humor, and I do I I I call you a humorist sometimes because I think you I think you have a natural sense of humor. But I also think that there's a real strategic element in here, and it reminds me of a quote that I once heard. And the quote said, sometimes my happiness is the source of my smile, and sometimes my smile is the source of my happiness. Meaning, sometimes we have to make ourselves laugh first and then it feels, then the humor comes. And so what I think I'm hearing from you is that, you know, while being aware that it could be overused in some situations, when you're in a difficult moment, sometimes make it cracking the joke, making the laughter happen.
Jenn Quader:Even if you don't feel like it, once you've laughed, you will begin to feel better.
Asef Quader:Absolutely. I think there's the other side of it is in in the face of of disaster. It's either I'm if I don't laugh, I'm gonna cry. So, instead of showing that emotion of you know, and there is something of that where it's like I can't I can't let people see me cry. I have to be the strong man or I have to be show show strength.
Asef Quader:And people see laughter as strength as opposed to, crying, which shows weakness, which is not true. Which is not true in in the least. But I think I was kind of raised with that. I definitely know that from my mother's side that we were raised. Dude, do not show weakness.
Asef Quader:So laughter is not weakness. So here I am laughing.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I like the comment that you made just a few minutes ago about, you know, it's just live your life. Don't don't be a don't be a dick. Right? Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I wanna I wanna pick up on that just for a minute because there's a couple of things I wanna ask you. I I have a friend in London in The UK, and he said, Kelly, you know, where you are and what you're doing and the things that you've gone through, things you've achieved, you are at the point in your life where you have one rule. I said, what's that? No dickheads allowed. Yes.
Dr. Kelly Culver:That's right. And he's absolutely right. I think you reached that, so it's you know, don't be that, but I'm also not gonna let that into my ecosystem because it's not gonna be very helpful.
Asef Quader:Right.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And you you, you know, you've talked about some of the strategies that you used. You know, I use the word strategies around being resilient or learning to be resilient, and humor is one of them. And I love the story, Jen. But I I have a question, and I guess it's on my own observation. You know, as I've husband, Peter, also had cancer, and he passed away three years ago.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And he had, a six year journey that was you know, we did some amazing things, but this isn't about him. It's about you. But I wanna ask a question based on my observation about him. And it's this. You learn things about yourself from your cancer battle, and I'd like to know what they are.
Dr. Kelly Culver:But the second part of that question is you are in that bubble. You described a beautiful bubble. Jen was the protector. You know, we were we were tiger mamas, both of us. You know?
Dr. Kelly Culver:You you heard him. I'll kill you.
Asef Quader:Mhmm.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And you can leave that in editors because that's how we feel. That's our job. And we protect you from all the crap that you don't need to be engaging with as you engage in this battle for your life.
Asef Quader:Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And and I think Jen and I wear that as a badge of honor, and we're happy to have done that. But you come out of the bubble. So the treatment's done. It's all been successful. And then you have to get back into what life looks like, and your family isn't calling you every day to tell you you love that they love you.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Your wife's not telling you that she loves you every day. She's expecting you to just get your game
Asef Quader:on Kelly, preach it.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And get back at it. And all of a sudden, you go, what the hell just happened? How did you deal with that?
Asef Quader:It's a good question. I I think there was a bit of the return to normalcy was something that I was so desperate to get to that it was nice.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah.
Asef Quader:We've talked many times on this show that there is no such thing as a return to normalcy. Right? That everything's changed after just like the beginning of this episode. There's a storm, and when it passes, everything's gonna be different. And everything was different.
Asef Quader:But being able to go outside again. Right? When I when I went through my my bone marrow transplant, I had to be in a hospital room for three weeks. It was supposed to be longer. I went home.
Asef Quader:I had to be inside the house. And at the time, we lived in a one bedroom apartment in Huntington Beach, California. Beautiful area, about a mile away from the beach, so I'm not complaining, except that I couldn't leave the house. Couldn't step outside of the house for another three months. So when you talk about, like Jen was saying, those goals, those little carrots, Getting out of the hospital was one carrot.
Asef Quader:Getting back in from getting into the house, then being in the house for three months, then then stepping out of the house, being a step out of the house. And as these little victories occurred, you saw the drop off in what you were talking about. The messages start to die down and and whatnot. People are feeling good. And there's something about that.
Asef Quader:There's something about, you know, when when you get these calls from people, it was them being scared. You know, I remember when I first started getting the calls, I was consoling people. People were crying and I would have to be the one consoling them. I was the one going through cancer, but I was the one who was consoling these people, telling them it's gonna be okay, not the other way around. Which I was happy with.
Asef Quader:I was I was so like, you know, not happy. I didn't you know, like I said, I was fearful of of just that because I didn't want people to cry about me. I didn't want people to cry for me. So those notes of love and whatnot, as they were so encouraging, I know it came from a place also of being scared. So that fearfulness was dying down, which also encouraged me.
Asef Quader:Jen, not having to feel like she was the tiger mama, the bulldog, the one who had to fight for me daily because she had so much stress on her because she was she was the breadwinner. She had so much stress having to do everything. My job was to heal. Her job was everything else. So as I started to heal, a lot of that responsibility could start coming off her.
Asef Quader:So it was nice to not have to be taken care of mentally and physically that I could start taking some of that burden away. The return to normalcy, the return to everyday life was hard only because I fought for three years doing this, you know, and you battle, and you're doing this over and over and over again. And the goal was to win. And to win was to go back to normal life. And I got to go back to normal life.
Asef Quader:So that was they made things a little bit easier.
Jenn Quader:When going through cancer, everything about yourself changes. Your your the way your body looks and feels changes, the responsibilities, the daily responsibilities, as well as the job responsibilities you had you you have come off of you. And then at some point, all of that has to come back as a reinvention of self. And so my question to you is is what did it take for you? And maybe maybe the word I'm gonna I'm gonna go and just riff for a minute because I think the word reinvention may be what what is hitting you wrong because reinv and and it's a word I use a lot.
Jenn Quader:I I talk about reinventing because I'm a I'm a branding person. And I think that for me, I have to think about, you know, where where do I wanna be? How do I wanna show up in this? But perhaps it's just becoming what you were always meant to become, which I think is our our journey in this life. So the question is, as you go through a time where your body changes how it looks, how it feels, as your job responsibilities change, as all of this happens, like, what does it take for you to then become a whole person again, to become who you're going to be without that baggage, without those those insecurities, without those things?
Asef Quader:Well, what I'll say is is this. At the at the end of everything, at the end of the cancer and everything was was fine and dandy, knock on wood, People ask me, you know, you know, what what's, how did cancer change you? You know, did you become a new person? What what did you see life in new ways? Are things sweeter or or does the air smell fresher?
Asef Quader:You know, things like that. And the the short answer was was no, but only because I liked who I was before, and I think who I was before helps me beat cancer. I I was a person who loved my family, loved my friends, loved meeting new people, loved traveling, loved sharing love, sharing a smile. I loved life. I think that helped me overcome cancer.
Asef Quader:And when I got through cancer, I still loved life. I loved life going through cancer. I loved life after going through cancer. I love life now. I think that's helped me to, like I said, to overcome.
Asef Quader:So I didn't I didn't feel like I became a new person at the end of cancer. I think there are some, you know, PTSD that I go through at times. I think there are things that I cover up a lot, because you don't want to relive it. But in terms of, you know, coming out of cancer and and being a new person or a new man, I don't necessarily think think the disease made me do that. I think there are things that I learned from being with you, Jen.
Asef Quader:Things that I learned, from just growing up and experiencing things, but I liked who I was before cancer. I like who I am now.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You know why you're having trouble answering the question? Because you didn't lose yourself.
Asef Quader:Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So there was no new self to find. You never lost yourself. You kept yourself as a constant that whole way through. And so, yes, there may be some reinvention around the edges because normal is different. Right?
Jenn Quader:Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So we reimagine what that new life looks like. But you never lost yourself. So there was no new identity to create because you're still you. A lot of people who come through a life changing disease, it doesn't necessarily have to be cancer. It, you know, it could be something else, feel that they have to become someone new or they feel that society expects them to be someone new.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And so they go through this soul searching to try and create a new identity. Where it's like, but I'm still that same person. You don't have to walk across the street to the other side of the street to avoid me. You know, you can still talk to me. I'm the same person I always was.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I haven't changed. And so if you if you look at me through eyes where you think I have changed, you know, I've lost myself, I have to have a new self, you know, in some ways, that's not recognizing the achievement that I that I have had in coming through this disease, but you're forcing your perception that somehow I'm different. I'll give you a different example. I'll say it in a different way. I don't have a husband.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I'm a widow. I hate that word. Do you know why? I I wear it as a badge of honor because I am so proud to have been married to my husband. And I think, well, I'm not a widow.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I'm just not married to him anymore because he's not physically here. Because people look at you through interesting eyes. They have a vision of what you should be and look like based on that word. That was the point I was trying to make.
Jenn Quader:And so do you
Asef Quader:know who said
Jenn Quader:go ahead.
Asef Quader:And and I'll say that the we've talked on this podcast before about being, shoved into this keyhole of what definitions of of things mean. And and I've said before, I don't like being called a cancer survivor.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. I get it. I totally get it.
Asef Quader:It's not you know, that it was one part of a journey, that I went through, and I'm proud that I survived cancer. I'm proud of the work that I put in to be where I'm at now, very healthy, that I keep working daily to to achieve. But when people throw you into that box of cancer survivor, I I don't know. I I there is part of me that feels like people give you some sort of, puppy dog eyes when they hear that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah.
Asef Quader:You know, they feel sorry for you, and it's you know, I appreciate it, but it's it's not my end all be all story. I don't wanna be I don't like being subject to being any one thing.
Jenn Quader:Yeah. But let's pivot to community, though, because now I'm gonna I'm like, now we're let's get let's get in it. Right? Because if you don't identify that way, then no one knows that you are. And then how do the people who might need you and need your story outside of listening on Resiliency the podcast, of course, but how do how do people find you?
Jenn Quader:You know, like like where where where does that intersection of identity and not wanting to to be identified with the disease meet the opportunity to connect with others who either have gone through or are going through, you know, how do you maintain that community while also maintaining that detachment?
Asef Quader:Talking to people, being curious about people. I think I don't go out and say I'm a cancer survivor. Talk to me. But, you know, I I play a lot of golf, much to Jen's chagrin. Actually, probably
Jenn Quader:the opposite. She wants to play golf, so she should be alone. He's right. He's right.
Asef Quader:You know? And so I meet a lot of people on the golf course, and and we'll talk. And someone will say, I'm battling cancer, or I had cancer. And instantly, I I start up a conversation, and we start talking. You know, cancer is a interesting thing because people who haven't gone through cancer don't know.
Asef Quader:You know, they they it's a story that you can try to tell people, but if you haven't been through it, if you if you don't know it, it's something that is so hard to describe. It's very hard to talk about. So I don't talk about it with everyday people because it is just it's not an easy thing to to delineate. But if you are going through it or have gone through it, I am happy to talk, and we will talk story, and we will talk about we will share battle stories, and and it's easy easy to talk to with people who've gone through it. No.
Asef Quader:I don't advertise it to most people because it turns into me I feel like I'm telling a sob story, and I don't wanna share a sob story. I will share my my war stories with people who have gone through it. And that is very easy. And, you know, when you start doing that, you start peep people know. And and I, obviously, many, many, many people know that I went through cancer.
Asef Quader:I went through it for so many years. Everybody knows that I went through it. So when people do know somebody who has cancer or is going through it, they will connect me. And I talked to I talked to many people, and I've tried to help many people go through that, battle that they're going through and and try to help as much as I can. It's such a personal battle that as much as I've gone through, I can give you my stories and give you advice and whatnot, but cancer is such a personal battle.
Asef Quader:It's hard to hear from somebody's point of view. And take anything from it, if that makes sense.
Jenn Quader:It it does. And I I think what I'm what I take from what you're saying is that the shared experience is a is an important piece of it. It. And so while you don't need to advertise, hey. I'm I'm this or that.
Jenn Quader:When you when you either find someone or encounter or are referred to someone who has that shared experience, there's a common language. I would I would equate it to, like, you know, just since I know this episode is about cancer, but just to kind of everyone is going through their own thing. I think of, I have a dear person I love who, is going through neurodivergence in her family. And and she'll she'll say like, you you don't understand what it's like to have these therapists in the house and do these things. Well, yeah, I don't, but anyone else who's gone through that neurodiversity journey will, you know?
Jenn Quader:And so I think it's a similar thing that when you, when you, when you've gone through whatever that is, that that is just makes your life, you know, need to work a little differently and gotta kinda go through the different holes and through the different pockets. Once you have that experience to be able to connect with someone who's gone through it similarly, like you said, you don't have to fill the gaps. You don't to fill the holes as much.
Asef Quader:Yeah. And to to give an example, I think, Jen, you and Kelly can relate more to each other through your shared cancer stories than I ever could. Because I you went through things that I only saw but could never imagine. Kelly, the same way. You guys fought tooth and nail, and I don't know what that's like.
Asef Quader:And I thank you, Jen. I mean, you saved me. How many how many of my friends have said that I would die? I would've I'd be dead if Jen wasn't in my life. And it's I mean, I agree.
Asef Quader:Firmly believe that. I firmly believe it. And all joking aside, I 100% I would not be here if Jen wasn't in my life. Well, I
Jenn Quader:mean, I I can speak to that because I I agree with that, but I I think it's not just Jen. I mean, thank you. But I also think that, you know, that's about being an advocate for people and I will leave my comments about the American healthcare system right here in front of everyone. And that is to say that it's hard to navigate, it's difficult to navigate, it's difficult to remember what scan was what, and you and and again, without any because every doctor and every nurse that helped us wants to help us. That's not what it's it's not against them.
Jenn Quader:It's just that they have a lot of patience and a lot of things, and so you do have to have an advocate or be an advocate, one or the other. You you have to be an advocate for your own health no matter what country you live in, no matter where you are. And so I think that, that you're right. Us having a partnership within that did help each other because I was able to kind of keep track of the details and, you know, and and you were able to focus on the healing part, which I think is really important. Absolutely.
Jenn Quader:And and and you were able to keep a positive mindset, you know, throughout that, which again, led to some of that resilience.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Let me ask you about, you know, what happened next. So you know that here on Resiliency, the podcast, we talk about the resilience trinity, which is being able to persist and survive, adapt and stay on track, and leap ahead and transform. You know, change the track. You were released from hospital, and you were told you would never ever, ever, ever, ever run a triathlon again. And in form, twelve months later, you said the heck with that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I am so not listening to that, and you did. Tell us about that, and did that change the definition of resilience that you had held through your cancer treatments?
Asef Quader:So backstory here. I had run a triathlon before, and I had bought a very expensive bike.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's all about the bike.
Asef Quader:I told myself I told myself when I bought the bike, I can't just run one triathlon. If I'm spending this much money on this bike, I have to do at least two.
Jenn Quader:What is the bike?
Asef Quader:Then shortly thereafter, I got diagnosed with cancer. Cut to a couple years later when I have to get a bone marrow transplant, and we're in the transplant, and we're in the the room, with the doctor before I go in for doing the transplant. And we're asking him all the side effects, all the things that are gonna happen to me, and there's a litany of them. I ask him, do you think I will ever run a triathlon again? And he looks at the chart, and he looks at me.
Asef Quader:He's like, I don't think so. And in my brain, I thought, fuck you. I'm gonna run a fucking triathlon again.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I just bought this bike.
Jenn Quader:I fucked the bike. Damn it. Sir, you don't understand. It it was the see this.
Asef Quader:It was the competitive spirit that kicked in. He told me I couldn't do it, and I was like,
Jenn Quader:oh,
Asef Quader:yeah? Okay. Let's see what happens. And that's when, you know, I told you I got out of the hospital earlier than what they said. You know?
Asef Quader:Originally, he sat there and said it's gonna be six weeks to two months you're gonna be in this room. No one can see you. No one can be in there. Your wife can be in there, but she has to wear a mask the entire time. And I remember saying that, and I remember thinking, I'm doing this in three weeks.
Asef Quader:And I was like, I'm doing this in three fucking weeks. Pardon my language, everybody.
Jenn Quader:And did.
Asef Quader:And I did. I absolutely did. I I I stood true to that, getting that adrenaline running every day. Every day, I was getting I I was I held true to that one thing. I'm getting out of here in three weeks, and then I'm gonna do my three months at home.
Asef Quader:And as soon as I'm done with that three months at home, I'm training. I'm training for this triathlon. I'm going to do this triathlon. And it was about twelve months. I think it might have been, like, maybe thirteen months after I got out of the hospital.
Asef Quader:I think we got out of the hospital in March, 2010, and we did the triathlon in April of twenty eleven. And Jen joined me. Jen Jen did it.
Jenn Quader:I did it too.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, wow.
Jenn Quader:I did it. Yeah. I I finished. That's all we're gonna talk about. We're not gonna talk about how long it took.
Jenn Quader:We're not gonna talk about anything else, but I did finish. Excellent. Good girl.
Asef Quader:But it was you know, we talked about the carrot before. We talked about the goal. It was the the overarching theme, the I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to have this goal in mind, and I'm gonna focus on that goal. And I'm not gonna stop focusing on that goal because that's one of the things that's gonna help me get through this.
Asef Quader:Every little thing that works towards that goal is gonna help me get through this.
Jenn Quader:Yep. Yeah. And I wanna comment real quick on your adrenaline strategy. You said earlier in the episode, you know, like, I don't know if there's anything that backs this up, you know, but this is this is what I found is that if I got my adrenaline running every day, it it makes me think of, you know, Anthony Robbins has a whole his whole all of his seminars and everything, and I grew up with with that motivation, you know, motivational background. And when you attend his seminars, when you start, like, you all come in, they already pays their thousands of dollars and they're all in their business suits, you know, and he's like, get up on your chair.
Jenn Quader:And you're like, I'm sorry. What? And he's like, get up on your chair. And he wants you to stand up on your chair. And then he has you like jump up and down and move.
Jenn Quader:And his whole idea is you have to get yourself in a state of being, a state of being. And it's interesting because Doctor. Kelly Culver would I think Doctor. Kelly Culver, why don't you jump in and tell me what what does that make you think of?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Well, you know, you ask me what's my definition of resilience and resilience is a state of being.
Jenn Quader:State of being.
Dr. Kelly Culver:There's no verb.
Jenn Quader:No verb. And this is where it's so interesting because what you clued into was this idea of like getting your body moving and and and to I I'd like to point out it wasn't always your body because when you are having those chemo, it's not like Asif could get up and move around so he had to physically do that and I remember there was this one night you know, during that three weeks in the hospital where the doctor called me, you know, that you forgive me, but you rarely see the doctor when you're in the hospital. You know, you see the hospital attendant, you see the nurses, but you don't always see your cancer doctor. And his cancer doctor called me at, like, 03:00 in the morning in the hospital. And And I get on the phone and he's like, and I knew something was going on, but I didn't quite know what.
Jenn Quader:And he said, his blood pressure has gone way too low, and I'm gonna have to put him in the ICU. You have to wake him up and make him mad. I was like, what? Are you kidding me? Like, he's been tortured through all this stuff.
Jenn Quader:He's hurting it. And I remember having to wake him up, but it it it just correlates with this this skillfulness is what I'm thinking, which is this idea whether it's the Anthony Robbins, I'm I'm healthy and well and I'm jumping on my seat, or whether I'm in my hospital boat and I'm thinking of something, whatever can bring that blood pumping. You know, that is what that doctor said, get his blood pumping. Because if not, he's gonna go in the ICU. And if he goes in ICU, he may not come out.
Jenn Quader:And so it was really a a critical time, but such an interesting strategy to look at in the aftermath. And with that, I'm gonna turn it to our last question. When I say last, it's not really our last. Stick with us listeners because we got some good stuff coming up just after. But, but but what I wanna ask is, you know, we talked about the resilience trinity and the plan and adapt and transform and and transform is is the last part of that, and and that is really a forward looking place.
Jenn Quader:And so what I wanna ask is what's next for Asif? What's next in your resilience journey? What's what is ahead for you?
Asef Quader:What is ahead for me is the resiliency of the podcast. Jen and myself have started a media company. We are all media, all productions, anti Lulu productions. There's many different names for it.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Anti Lulu. Oh, that's
Jenn Quader:Anti Lulu. It's Anti Lulu Productions is is is the name of the company, but but we call it for for our you know, we registered it as all incorporated. But Anti Lulu Productions.
Asef Quader:Yeah. So we're going strong, trying to preach resiliency, trying to preach inner light, trying to preach being good to one another, finding yourself, being helpful in this world, being a light to this world, being a beacon. That's what's next. It's just about putting out good in the world. That's what's next.
Asef Quader:Putting out as much good as possible.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Good. So you're gonna spearhead the movement. That's what you're doing. You're spearheading the movement, and I like that. I like that a lot.
Jenn Quader:Kelly, tell us more tell our listeners more about the movement so they know what to look forward to. Just whatever you're able to share.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Sure. Well, you know, we all believe that, we we talk about resilience and resiliency a lot and we want it to become a movement. And there's lots of moving parts in this. So Jen and Asif have talked And there's lots of moving parts in this. So Jen and Asif have talked about anti lulu media and creations and looking at this as, you know, positivity and light through different forms and different channels.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And I have a a company now in The UK called the Resilience Trinity Limited with a colleague, and we're working with companies and countries on building resilience and resilient capacity. But next year, and we'll talk more about it later, we're looking at having a resilience festival. And it's the start of the resilience movement. And I'm not gonna say any more than that because it'll be a teaser and, you know, so there you go.
Jenn Quader:That's where we're at. Look. You've you've given me the teasers. I have I have the goosebumps as they say. Really, guys, I it's it's it's exciting.
Jenn Quader:It's real. And and what I can tell you is that, you know, it's it's a good time to be talking about resilience because we need it. I think there's not one of us that hasn't looked at the news and felt that pit in our stomach, and, this is the answer. The answer is light and openness and this and developing the state of being. So, I I have really doctor Kelly Culver to thank and really Ossif Quater to thank for, kicking it through that cancer battle so that you could fly to Paris, watch us do some TEDx's, and help us turn the the together, the three of us, really shaping this resilience journey and movement together.
Jenn Quader:It's it's really an honor, and it's really exciting.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's been a blast. It really has. It's and it and it's not not that long period of time. You know, this is all pretty short. But I wanna know, Asa, if you're a bit of a nerd and you've you've said to me that I'm a bit of a nerd on when it comes to Star Wars.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I can't believe you said that to me. Yeah. But so
Jenn Quader:She's stumped up.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient? It better not be the same one as I said.
Asef Quader:It's not. It's not the same. It's no. It's hard because listen. This, this question is hard because I've I've, you know, helped write these questions, and I probably could give you a hundred different answers.
Asef Quader:I I was a film major in college, and I it but we could just have an episode on this.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Get to the quite get to the answer. You've known this question for four months.
Asef Quader:And tomorrow, it's gonna be a different answer.
Jenn Quader:I'm not here. Rally. Just whipping it. Just whip whip. Get those guests in order, girl.
Asef Quader:So so right now, I feel like, you know, I'd wanna say, like, the Shawshank Redemption. Right? I feel like you guys are my wardens, and I need to escape and get to Seywatejo on the beach somewhere with a nice tropical drink.
Jenn Quader:Well, good luck with that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:The warden.
Jenn Quader:Good luck with that With that tunneling, have a good time. Enjoy. You'll have a drink. Drink down the street. Make it happen.
Jenn Quader:Yeah. We caught you.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Happen. Yeah. You can see American warden and the Canadian warden. You are so screwed.
Asef Quader:I like you know? That's a good that's a good resilience movie. Citizen Kane, you know, is I don't know. For some reason, that always speaks to me. I love movies that are resilient in the way of me decompressing, me laying in bed and watching some stupid movie.
Asef Quader:I love holiday movies. You know, when Christmas times comes up and then we're right around the corner, I love having our Jen and I do our Christmas movie marathon day, which I always have to include I always have to include, two movies, which are, Christmas vacation and home alone. Always make me feel resilient, cozy, and happy. Those come to mind. Those four movies, I'm sure there are there are a billion more, Kelly.
Asef Quader:There are a billion. All of the movies.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What about your song?
Asef Quader:Same answer. A billion. You know, what comes to mind? There are a couple. Okay.
Asef Quader:So, the the song that Jen and I walked back up the aisle to after we got married, Don't Stop Believing by Journey.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Mhmm.
Asef Quader:I listened to that when I was in the hospital bed a lot. It actually might be why we walked back up to it during our wedding. That song, I like Welcome to the Black Parade by My Chemical Romance. That song gets me going. There's a Abbott Brothers song that I'm blanking on now.
Asef Quader:Hold on. I have to look it up real quick. Let me somewhat edit this. What's the Avid Brothers song that I like that always kind of gets me going, but in the opposite way? It's a weird sensation where I feel very calm and collected, and it makes me think of the good things in life and makes me think that everything's gonna be fine and good and dandy.
Asef Quader:The Abbot Brothers song is no hard feelings. That song always gets me feeling very, happy, in a very, if you haven't heard the song, listen to it. I would definitely I think you should I I it's one of those songs where I think I would want that played at my funeral.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Alright. Note to self.
Asef Quader:There you go.
Jenn Quader:Like, my dad.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's the last thing that made you laugh out loud?
Asef Quader:I don't know why this is the hardest question. My friends Mhmm. You know, we we a very good friend of mine, was in here from London over the weekend. David London from London was in town, and we all got together, and we had a little game night like we always used to do when we were together. David was one of my best friends.
Asef Quader:He is one of my best friends. I've known him since the seventh grade. And then all our friends, I I'm very lucky, talking about community again that all my friends I mean, I've known them for at least twenty five years, at least maybe more now, probably closer to thirty, forty years. I guess I aged myself. We all got together, and this was just over the weekend and just playing games.
Asef Quader:And you sit there and you tell a story and you talk and you say nonsensical things, and it just makes you laugh and happy.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's a question you'd like to leave for future guest?
Asef Quader:Do you know how many times I've asked myself this question and how many questions I've had? When when you're in need in need of feeling resilient, what is your go to food and or beverage?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Fun. I like that.
Jenn Quader:I like that. Yep. Alright. That's a good one. Okay.
Jenn Quader:Well, I have a question for you from a a former from a a prior guest here on Resiliency the podcast. It is not food related, so I like yours because it is food related. We'll keep that for another one. I know, right? No food in this one.
Jenn Quader:But it is technology related because we all live in a technology enabled world. So the question is, what is your favorite technology of self? And by technology of self, we mean what app or practice or skill or software, what do you use to connect with yourself?
Asef Quader:To connect with self. This is a hard one. I didn't think you're gonna give me this one. Oh, man. To connect with self, I don't know.
Asef Quader:I I I play a lot of video games. And I like playing video games because I play with my friends, and we play online. So my my PlayStation five, I like to get on, and it's a great communication tool. I get to connect to people who I wouldn't normally see, who live in different parts of the world, who I can just sit down and will play video games for hours, and we'll talk and we'll play, and it's just a fun way to connect and to keep my sanity at times and to decompress and to forget about the day. There's some things about playing a game with friends that just makes you forget about what's going on in your world, and sometimes that's really nice and keeps me sane.
Asef Quader:So my PS five is really fantastic.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I would like
Jenn Quader:to say that, Asif, you've just, you've just been given a dream answer for all of the children of our listeners who are in that 12 to 13 range. Because if if a PS five is the best technology of self, that's the greatest argument for that as a Christmas gift that I've ever heard. So, parents, give give that some thought. Technology of the self.
Asef Quader:I grew up with video games. I started and really gonna age myself here. The first gaming system I had in my house was the Atari twenty six hundred, and I pretty much had every gaming system thereafter in my household or near me playing games. Like doctor Kelly, I am a bit of a nerd.
Jenn Quader:She's like, don't fool me in that. You use that word again with my name. How dare you. You are
Dr. Kelly Culver:too much.
Jenn Quader:Doctor Kelly is
Asef Quader:my doctor's name out of your mouth. That's
Jenn Quader:Doctor Kelly is the coolest cat around. You cannot call her a nerd. She's a cool cat.
Asef Quader:Cool. Nerd culture is what's in right now.
Jenn Quader:Have you heard her playlist? She's cool as heck. Come on now. That's what I'm saying.
Asef Quader:Hey. You know, doctor Kelly, you know what I was listening to just yesterday that got me feeling very resilient?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Rolling Stones, Shelter. Chicago. Chicago.
Jenn Quader:Chicago. Chicago.
Asef Quader:Twenty Five Twenty Five or '64. Put that on the list of songs that make me feel resilient.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yes. Do
Asef Quader:new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new. Exactly. That song gets me going.
Jenn Quader:Time. Another time. Okay. In the meantime. Awesome.
Asef Quader:Resiliency sorry. Go
Jenn Quader:on. What?
Asef Quader:I was gonna say another spin off. Resiliency, the music podcast.
Jenn Quader:There you go. Another spin off. Exactly. Well, Asif, thank you. As always, you have brought a lot of light and fun and humor to the conversation, and you also really openly shared this, really difficult journey of yours.
Jenn Quader:So thank you so much. I do wanna ask before we wrap up, is there anything we didn't ask you that you wanna be sure that the listeners of Resiliency the Podcast know?
Asef Quader:I would say if you are going through a battle, cancer, any sort of other health related issue, any sort of mental, related issue, the key is never giving up. It's never giving up. It's it's finding finding your group, finding your community, finding supports that will help you through that if you don't have it already. But finding some mental stability, finding your way through it, and even if that's just taking a small step forward, never giving up, it's it's fantastic what we are capable of as humans as long as we don't give up that fight. Always fight.
Asef Quader:Never give up. Always battle. That's what I would say. That's what I want people to take from this that I I never give up, and I will never give up. And as long as you keep doing that, things will get better.
Asef Quader:That storm will pass, and things will be different, and you will be better for it.
Jenn Quader:I see you up on that cliff, and that storm has already passed, and you when you don't give up, you're still on the cliff, and you're still going. Well, we are so grateful to have had you as a guest today. It's such a treat to have you in that chair. I wonder if you'd let our listeners know where they can find and connect with you, please.
Asef Quader:They can always find me somewhere in the background of Resiliency podcast. I you can find me on the socials at asefquader.com, a s e f q u a d e r, not dot com, at asef quader. Yep. You'll find me there.
Jenn Quader:Beautiful. And as always, you can find me, Jen Quader, at Jen Quader on all the socials. That's at j e n n q u a d e r. You can find me at Jen Quader dot com or thesmartagency.com. You can find our wonderful, amazing, brilliant, not a nerd, super cool cat, doctor Kelly Culver, online on, LinkedIn and Instagram at doctor kelly culver or on her website, theculvergroup.ca.
Jenn Quader:Again, that's .ca for Canada. And, of course, the most important girl in the room, the best thing we could even do for ourselves is to follow Resiliency the podcast, the beautiful, beautiful podcast that we've created. You can find us at resiliencythepodcast.com or on any of the channels where you typically listen to podcasts. And as always, we thank you so much for listening. You guys are an important part of our lives and our resilience journey.
Jenn Quader:We are so grateful to have you as listeners. Please do subscribe, like us, and we will look forward to seeing you back here next week for another episode of Resiliency the Podcast.
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