Resiliency The Podcast

Jenn Quader (00:44.36)
Welcome to Resiliency, the podcast. Today's guest is someone who knows what it means to rewrite the script, both literally and figuratively. She's an award-winning keynote speaker and author of The Kick-Ass Guide to Setting Goals. She's also the founder of Rain Shadow Coaching, where she helps high-performing leaders, creators, entrepreneurs build clarity, confidence, and a mindset that actually sustains them through uncertainty.

Now before this, she worked in the fast-paced world of Hollywood casting, where she helped aspiring actors and celebrities get selected for movies, commercials, television shows, and more. Soon she realized her real gift went beyond helping others to land their dream roles. That realization sparked a pretty powerful pivot that you're gonna hear about today, one that led her to redefine success not just for applause, but for alignment.

So with that, please welcome this amazing Hollywood casting agent turned author, speaker, coach, and really visionary, Ms. Kerry Williams. Welcome to Resiliency, the podcast.

Carrie Williams (01:46.339)
Thank you so much for having me, ladies. It's a joy to be here.

Dr Kelly Culver (01:50.855)
we are super excited that you're with us, because I know that you've got lots of stories to tell us today and lots of things that we can learn. But we always start with the same question for everybody. Carrie, what does resiliency mean to you?

Carrie Williams (02:06.319)
That was a brilliant question. For me, resiliency starts in the mind. It's all about your mindset. Resiliency is the ability to stay open and willing even in times of chaos and hardship. And it is about, I grew up in Alaska, so it's about picking yourself up by the bootstraps, getting back into it as quickly as possible and learning from the fall. Not shaming yourself for the fall, not even lamenting the fall.

really embracing the fall, learning from it, and getting back stronger.

Jenn Quader (02:39.678)
before we move into kind of your career path, something that you said in that opening is open and willing. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about the difference between being open to that and being, like what does that mean to someone who is trying to seek resilience? How can we build commitment toward that resilience?

Carrie Williams (03:01.743)
Got it. So I do executive and leadership coaching. And what I've noticed when we talk about resilience or motivation, we never talk about the core nugget. And the core nugget is really willingness. Are you willing to do what it takes to get where you want to get to? Are you fully enthusiastically and committed willing? And so what I've discovered is there's a spectrum of willingness. And I talk about this quite a bit. And on the far end of the spectrum is unwilling.

and I'm sure you've met unwilling people in your life. You cannot get them to change or grow or try. As a coach, I cannot coach those people. The next level up is a resentful willing. They're willing, but they really don't want to. They're only doing it because they're forced to and they absolutely have to. The next step is a reluctant willing. It's not quite resentful, but they really don't want to. They're dragging their feet. They might take a step forward and three steps back. And then in the middle of the spectrum gets to be accepted willing, where you go...

This is what it is, it must happen, so I might as well do it. Almost a neutral, right? The real movement and momentum happens when you're on the upper side of the spectrum, because after you get to accepted, you can get to hopeful. And that is not where you believe the change will have a difference, it's that you hope. You hope the effort will be worth it. You're willing to try, because you want to experiment and see what might come of it. After hopeful is...

more of an enthusiastic and excited willingness where you're actually motivated to do it. And then at the very far end is a full in enthusiastic and committed willingness. And when you're there, you have made the conscious choice that you are going to be willing no matter what happens. Even in the worst case scenario, it doesn't matter. You're going to dust yourself off and keep going. So.

I like to gauge and figure out where people are on that willingness spectrum before we even have a conversation because it really makes a difference. If you're not too neutral, we can't do any deep work. If you're not too accepted willing, it's going to be a struggle for you. If you're a person who never reaches your goals, odds are you're stuck in resentful or reluctant. And so the first step is moving ourselves and the people around us up that spectrum.

Jenn Quader (05:22.144)
so glad I asked that because as you say it, I like, I put my little head down when you said reluctant willingness, because that resonates for me, man. That really, like I can feel the difference. And for me, of course, everything almost always goes through a work filter because when you're an entrepreneur, you're always building your company. But I can definitely think of times where I've been reluctantly willing to do things and it is not as effective. There's no way to get to it.

Dr Kelly Culver (05:28.632)
you

Jenn Quader (05:48.431)
I want to shift this because it's such a, it's a good example of who you are, Carrie, that you're able to see this spectrum of willingness. And I want to ask, how did this play into your powerful shift? You made a decision, you were in Hollywood casting. That's a dream job for a lot of people, right? And so you're in the, and you're doing it at a high level. And then you make this decision that it's time to redefine your path. And I think,

You know, obviously you must have reached that higher level of willing in order to make that kind of pivot. Can you talk to us about what was the moment that did that and how did you cultivate that willingness to make that kind of change?

Carrie Williams (06:25.379)
Yeah, so when you're on that ever end of the spectrum, the feeling, what it feels like is really powerful. You feel really empowered. You feel really in control. You feel like you matter and you make a difference and that your actions are propelling you forward to where you want to be. I started working in casting because I was an actress first and I needed a day job because I quickly realized that rent in Los Angeles is incredibly expensive. Go figure.

So I got a job in casting. They weren't hiring. I said, I'll work for free until you think I'm worth paying. They paid me the first day. They called me in the next day. Within two weeks, I was the first person that they called. I was a right-hand girl. And it was brilliant. But also, it came to the point where if I was running a callback where the director and the producers are sitting in the room, and a callback is like a second or third interview for those of you who aren't familiar with the entertainment world.

Dr Kelly Culver (07:04.269)
Awesome.

Jenn Quader (07:07.939)
Amazing.

Carrie Williams (07:21.623)
If I was running a callback and I had a producer and director and writers in that room and actors scheduled, there's no way I was ever going to get away and go to an audition. So I got too good at my job. I boxed myself in. But the primary job of a casting director is to find the right person for the job. And Jen, you and I know that there is no single right person for a job, right? There's a multitude of choices and so many of them could be brilliant.

Jenn Quader (07:48.419)
Right?

Carrie Williams (07:51.693)
But I was trying to find what the decision makers would see as the right person. So all day long, I told people no. Not why not and not how to get better and not like how close they were. It was just like, no, no, not good enough, not it, nope, not you, get out, no. And what happened was I started mentoring.

some of our freelancers and some of our actors who had booked a ton and stopped booking and they didn't know why, or they would always make it to a second callback and not book and they didn't understand why. And you and I know that at that point, it's not about skill. They have the skill to have the job. So equated to corporate world, it's not about the resume. They can do the job. There's something happening in that interview that they're not getting it. There's something happening in that audition and it's always mindset.

and energy that you bring in. It's the intention that you walk into that room with. If you walk into the room with the intention of proving that you're worth the job and that they should pick you, you are not going to get that job, which is really counterintuitive because all we want is for someone to pick us, right? When I first started coaching, I worked with actors a lot and the three things they came into the room with, their goals were, I wanna book the job, I wanna get the agent, I wanna win the award.

Carrie Williams (09:18.057)
None of those are in their control, right? Somebody else controls all of that. And so if those are the goals you're setting for yourself, every day that you don't achieve those goals, you're taking away your own power. You're just giving it away. So when I was doing that and helping people, people started booking and I was like, this is amazing. And then I helped people, some of our freelancers found their own businesses from scratch, come up with these ideas and build a business.

Some of those businesses 25 years later are still going. And I thought, this is really exciting and empowering and not just telling people no, but helping them get to a yes is really fulfilling. And then there was a day where I realized that if I had a meeting where I was coaching someone and I got a callback for myself, I would skip the callback.

And that's when I knew that I had found my true calling. And what attracted me to it was it's a powerful calling. It's a calling that I can have some impact on and I can not control, but I can influence the trajectory of my success. And for me at that point, the entertainment world felt really disempowering.

Jenn Quader (10:39.788)
And so it sounds like you moved to empowerment.

Carrie Williams (10:43.355)
I did, yeah. And interestingly enough, when I did that, there was a shift in my life as well. Like I was overweight, I was burned out, I was exhausted, I was paying rent but barely in Los Angeles. And once I shifted to living in that place of extreme committed willingness and making choices that were empowering for me, I lost 75 pounds. I was much more fun to be around.

Things shifted for me personally as well because I took myself out of it and started making different decisions.

Dr Kelly Culver (11:19.961)
Because you decided to live your passion and you found it, you fell into your passion. And when we do that, everything from our psyche to our physical manifestation of who we are and being present fundamentally changes. So you went through that, you know, Calvin and Hobbes, remember Calvin and Hobbes, transmogrifier box, right? You did that. You went through that and here you are.

Carrie Williams (11:43.363)
Hahaha

Dr Kelly Culver (11:49.365)
So you have this journey that you can talk to people about and you can say, I live it and I breathe it, but you found your passion and you fell into it.

Carrie Williams (11:58.841)
But I want to say too, it was really hard because I, from the time I was young, wanted to be a performer. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to influence the way people thought and what they saw. And so it was really shifting my identity and how I viewed myself at the same time. And it took me probably longer than it should have because I was clinging to the idea of what I was trying to build instead of the reality that I was living.

Dr Kelly Culver (12:01.967)
Sure.

Dr Kelly Culver (12:15.887)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (12:28.045)
Yes, and the right thing is hard to do. If it was easy, we wouldn't need you. That's the difference. Fist pump. So I want to ask you about goals, because you talked about helping people set their goals. Like I go through life talking to people and so many people have no clue on how to set a goal. And in your book,

Jenn Quader (12:40.14)
Mic drop that, please. Mic drop. Fist bump.

Dr Kelly Culver (12:56.973)
and I love the title, the Kick-Ass Guide to Setting Goals. You challenged the traditional smart goal model. Thank goodness I'm your cheerleader here. Can you explain, you know, what is the smart model for people who don't know what that is? And then what's missing from that framework that you found? And how does your approach go deeper? Enlighten us.

Jenn Quader (13:07.277)
Me too.

Carrie Williams (13:19.449)
Well, so if you were like me, when you learned anything about goal setting in school, you'd learn the smart model, right? And even a few years ago during the pandemic, when I went back to get my master's degree in organizational leadership and I was hungry, I said, great, let's learn about goals. What are the new models? And they said, no, it's a smart model. The smart model is almost as old as I am. And we don't use it properly. The smart model is really, really great at...

Dr Kelly Culver (13:26.458)
Mm.

Carrie Williams (13:50.127)
timely transactional goals. So it's really great at an organization getting the most out of their employees. But it's not so great at an individual getting the most out of themselves. So SMART stands for specific, measurable, can I even remember, timely, actionable. What's E stand for?

Dr Kelly Culver (14:05.514)
actionable actionable.

Dr Kelly Culver (14:11.087)
There's no E in smart.

Carrie Williams (14:12.559)
there's no Ian Smart. There's an Ian Great. Genius. I'm a genius. Woo! I'm on all cylinders today, ladies. Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (14:14.935)
realistic and timely.

Jenn Quader (14:15.951)
Great, I like it.

Jenn Quader (14:20.184)
Good. You're fine.

Carrie Williams (14:24.975)
And even the author of Smart Goals says we don't use them properly. So if we're trying to stay safe and stay task oriented and we want to focus on performance instead of purpose, a smart goal is perfect. But the modern day goal setter, that's not the kind of goals they want to set. We want to set audacious, life changing, impactful goals. We want to set audacious goals that scare us a little bit that are going to make a difference.

That's not a safe goal. So I think the greatest gap in SMART goals versus great goals, which is my program, is SMART goals are not purpose-based. They don't take into account your values, your purpose.

You're why. In fact, in SMART goals, you're usually trying to figure out how to get people to attain a goal that they didn't even set for themselves. It was given to them by someone externally.

Dr Kelly Culver (15:25.464)
Yes.

Jenn Quader (15:26.862)
you talk about that for one second? I'm so interested in that because one of the platforms I speak on a lot is something I call the knowledge quotient, and it's about external knowledge versus internal knowledge. And what you just talked about really reflected that. Can you dive into that a little bit about how we can turn to ourselves to find that purpose instead of looking outside of ourselves to find that performance?

Carrie Williams (15:48.195)
Yes, so we're talking about the difference between intrinsic goals, which are goals that are self-motivated that you want because you really love it or because you really want it versus external goals, right? Which is a goal that's given to you by your doctor or your spouse or your boss. Those are most of the goals that we strive for today. Studies show that if a goal is intrinsic, if it is self-motivated in some way, just changing that fact,

makes us twice as likely to accomplish and achieve that goal if we don't change anything else. So what happens if someone gives you a goal and you're not really aligned with it, but you have to execute? You're much more likely to execute if you can align it with your values. So here's an example. I worked with a client once who was in sales and this person was great at sales and they'd been at their job for a really long time and they changed the quotas and the person called me in a panic and said,

I think I'm gonna have to quit my job. They changed my quotas, it's way too much. I don't care about sales. I don't care about making money. This is really demotivating and I'm just gonna leave. And I said, well, what do you care about? And they said, I care about my clients and I care about helping them and serving them and making a difference in their lives. Now lucky for us, this person kept really great notes. And I said, okay, so if you reach out and connect with your clients,

On average, how many connections of just serving, reaching out and caring about your clients does it take before you make a sale? And I said, 10. And I said, and how many, what's your average sit? And they said, 10,000. And the new quota was 100,000. And I said, okay, I don't want you to think about money because money's not your driver. Money's not your purpose. Your purpose is to serve. It's to help. It's to connect. I want you to focus on that. And I want you to try and serve and focus and connect with a hundred clients this month.

And they were like, but what if I don't make the quota? And I said, the quota doesn't matter. We're going to focus on what matters to you. And luckily they were willing. On that spectrum of willingness, they were fully willing. So they did it.

Dr Kelly Culver (17:57.081)
Mm-hmm.

Carrie Williams (18:00.879)
They blew past that quota.

Dr Kelly Culver (18:05.172)
You

Carrie Williams (18:05.891)
They doubled that quota for that month and for the next 11 months, they were the top salesperson and they didn't care about numbers and they didn't care about money. They were the top salesperson until they chose to go to a different organization that was more in line with their values because at that point they realized how important values and purpose were. But they went from thinking they were gonna have to leave and disengage completely to being completely successful and it was just because they tapped into what was important to them.

Dr Kelly Culver (18:36.911)
So that speaks to me about motivation as well. You talked about the motivation scale on the willingness scale that you were describing to us just a few minutes ago and saying if people aren't motivated, then it's going to be hard to set goals or execute goals. So what role does motivation play in a bigger, broader sense? That's a beautiful example that you've just given us.

Carrie Williams (18:59.727)
So I'm going to be a little controversial here. I think that motivation plays a great part in setting a goal and absolutely no part in achieving a goal.

Jenn Quader (19:02.509)
Please.

Dr Kelly Culver (19:10.849)
Okay, explain, explain.

Jenn Quader (19:11.757)
I love that. Tell us more.

Carrie Williams (19:11.937)
And here's why. Motivation is based on your emotions. Right? We know that people change for one of two reasons. Either they want something so much they're willing to do the work or their status quo is so painful and untenable they have to change. That's where the motivation comes in. Right? I want more. I'm going to set this goal. But motivation is based on emotions. And emotions, by design, are fleeting.

They're shifting constantly. They're changing all the time. Which means that if our motivation is based on our emotions and our emotions are constantly changing, then our motivation is going to constantly ebb and flow if that's what we're looking for to keep us moving. So I think we need to shift the conversation from motivation to momentum.

Dr Kelly Culver (20:02.637)
you

Carrie Williams (20:04.889)
We need a spark of motivation at the beginning, and then we need to shift into momentum. And momentum is not nearly as sexy because it's about making hard choices and doing the work even if you don't want to and being steady and, you know, steadfast and it's boring.

Carrie Williams (20:27.509)
It is, but that's how we get stuff done.

Jenn Quader (20:33.951)
just couldn't agree more. I love that you say momentum is boring. That's amazing. But really what it is is momentum is steady. Momentum is consistent. I think it's interesting though because the thing I'll say from my experience is that even when you are in momentum and you are being steady, it still doesn't feel steady because emotions are always present. And so what I would say is,

I love the distinction that the motivation can help you set the goal, but then the motivation does not help you achieve it at all. If you move out of that and you can recognize your emotions as those fleeting things, and then you have that high-level, high-scoring willingness that you're talking about, that drives you through kind of the mundane day to day. I find that really, really fascinating.

Carrie Williams (21:23.361)
Remember Aesop's fable, tortoise and the hare? That is momentum versus motivation. The rabbit only moved when it had motivation to do it. And it would move in really quick leaps and bursts, but the tortoise had momentum. It was slow momentum, but it was steady momentum.

Jenn Quader (21:30.605)
you

Dr Kelly Culver (21:30.756)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (21:43.662)
I think that's really, really interesting. I'm interested, so we've talked a lot about the willingness and motivation and how we can get to those goals, but what's hidden beneath? What are some of the hidden challenges, or maybe just one, that could derail us when we're trying to build this type of motivational resilience?

Carrie Williams (22:02.159)
I'm making a face that no one on the podcast can see because I have experienced this one myself. I think that the worst trap that we fall into is comparison.

Dr Kelly Culver (22:06.483)
Ha ha!

Dr Kelly Culver (22:14.818)
yeah.

Carrie Williams (22:16.729)
Competition is not a bad thing as long as you are competing with yourself. As long as you're trying to show up as your best self, right? Competition is good. But when you are comparing your results to the people around you, you will always find a way to come up short. And you will always find a way to be frustrated. And frustration can be demotivating and it can lead to shame. And those two things do not lead to momentum.

So we know this from social media, right? We see what people want us to see. We don't see the hardship underneath. But we compare our journey with the journeys we see around them, assuming that everything is the same. And we go, well, wait, why is that person so far ahead of me? Why do they have what I don't have? I had this experience a few years ago where I was working with a company that I had done a retreat for, and I was very excited to pitch coaching services to them.

I was like, this is amazing. Had a conversation with them and they said, we already have a coach that we're working with. And I said, can you tell me more about this person? And they started to tell me about this person. And then they ended the conversation, well, you get it, he's just on a whole different level.

Dr Kelly Culver (23:39.759)
That's hard. That's hard and it's harsh.

Jenn Quader (23:40.311)
Whoo.

Carrie Williams (23:45.359)
She did not mean it to be harsh. She meant it to be explanatory. There wasn't. I was really, pardon my language, I was really butt hurt for about 24 to 48 hours. I was like, wha? Because I've worked really hard to work my way up in the coaching world. I have an MCC credential, which with the International Coach Federation is the highest credential you can have. It's the master credential coach. There's less than 2,500 of us in the world.

Dr Kelly Culver (23:47.907)
Yeah, but there was no emotional intelligence.

Carrie Williams (24:13.955)
I have my advanced credential in team coaching. There's only 31 coaches in the US that have both of those credentials. I just finished being the president of the International Coach Federation of Los Angeles, which was one of the chart largest chapters. Like I got my master's degree. I worked really hard at being what I thought was an expert. And I was like, I'm finally there. I can finally relax. And then to have someone go, he's just on a whole different level. You get it.

So I started comparing myself to this person. And of course I did the deep dive and I went on this person's website and this person isn't a coach. This person was a chief branding officer at a well-known organization that we would have heard about. And this person had a co-written ghost written book that hit the bestseller list. And this person's picture on their website was them at the helm of a sailing yacht. And I thought, oof, there's something about this person.

Carrie Williams (25:14.147)
that I am being compared to. And I fell into the comparison route too, right? Because she compared the two of us, and I believed her comparison.

Dr Kelly Culver (25:24.421)
Yeah, but that's competence over status. She was comparing something, she was looking at someone, and I shouldn't deep dive into this, she's comparing someone who's got this photo, got this book, achieved a certain status, is at a certain level. Doesn't mean that they're competent.

Carrie Williams (25:44.943)
True, but sometimes perception matters. And so what I took from that is, okay, what is this person bringing to the table that is making people perceive them? Because if I came back out of it and got out of the butt-hurt-edness, again, just lovely verb there.

There isn't a lot to compare, but I was being compared to and I fell into the, I compared myself to that person and they're getting the work. I'm not getting why. Why are they doing what I perceive as better than I am? So I think there's something to be learned from that. If we can take the personal affront out of it and go, it's really not about me. They're doing something I'm not doing. This person has an amazing network and they leverage the heck out of their network.

They're very visible. That's what they were doing that I wasn't doing.

Dr Kelly Culver (26:42.981)
Mm-hmm.

Carrie Williams (26:44.623)
That's not personal. They were taking a different action that I hadn't been taking. But when I got into comparison, it felt really personal. And I was like, well, why am I even doing this? What's the point? Right? If I could depersonalize it and look into what are the actual actions that are being taken, then I go, oh, I can do that. I can do that.

Jenn Quader (27:09.485)
I want to say I think it's really a very relatable topic because I think that comparison is something that every person does, whether they've had that direct interaction like you have with your client or whether they literally just opened up their Instagram and started looking at, her body's smaller than mine. That person has a better job than mine, whatever those things are. And I think it's so interesting, Carrie, that you tie it to this really, you know, what you talk about a lot is purposeful work and meaningful.

And this concept you're talking about is actually threaded into Buddhist culture, which is the comparative mind and learning to let go of and release the comparative mind. And when we do that, we find great peace. So I think it's really insightful the way you are leading yourself and your clients away from that.

Carrie Williams (27:54.383)
Thank you. It's also really buried to stoicism. Are you familiar with stoicism?

Jenn Quader (27:58.55)
Yes, The Daily Stoic is a great podcast.

Dr Kelly Culver (27:58.883)
Yes.

Carrie Williams (28:01.411)
Yes, it is. Shout out to Ryan Holiday. Yeah, I really firmly believe in those guiding principles of stoicism, wisdom, temperance, justice. so I think that the more we can let go what is not serving us to be our best selves, the better off we're going to be. The more we can focus on what we can actually change and have impact on, the more powerful we're going to feel.

You know, we talk a lot about imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome starts from comparison.

It's because we're comparing ourselves to other people around us and falling short and then believing that if other people look deeply enough, they will see that failure too.

Dr Kelly Culver (28:50.947)
I'd like to stay on this theme of comparison. Yeah?

Dr Kelly Culver (28:59.973)
You

Not me, I'm here by myself.

Carrie Williams (29:09.303)
I'm not hearing anything, but I will make sure there is one other person in my home, so I will tell him to.

Jenn Quader (29:15.373)
You're a poor other person in your home. I'm sure that our doggies are not doing the dishes, so I think we're safe on our end.

Jenn Quader (29:25.494)
Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (29:26.425)
Don't touch it.

Carrie Williams (29:29.327)
Okay, I just sent a text if it is him.

Dr Kelly Culver (29:30.231)
Okay, okay, all right, okay. Got it, next question. So Carrie, I'd like to stay in this area of comparison, if you don't mind for a minute, because you talk about working with high performing leaders. Working with people in the creative industry, and in a lot of cases, leaders and creatives compare themselves to others. They benchmark themselves against others.

Jenn Quader (29:32.045)
Thank you, we can pop back in, Dr. Kelly.

Dr Kelly Culver (29:57.241)
And they bring in this concept of perception, which you've talked about, and perspective. And Jen and I have gone into great detail around perception and perspective. But what I'm wondering is, in working with high-performing leaders and creatives, what patterns do you see around that comparison, burnout, self-doubt, and identity? And how do you help them with that, overcome this?

Carrie Williams (30:22.319)
So one of the things we do is really focus the scope of what we're looking at. Right? A lot of times we talk about taking the blinders off so we can enhance our perspective and open ourselves up. And when we're talking about performance, we're talking about putting some blinders on so that we are really phoned and focused in. We want to pay attention to

What is ours to own? What is ours to do? What is ours to be?

and

We need to look at it in two lines. A lot of times when we're looking at success, we look at the goal line. We look at what we want to achieve and what we want to do. And very rarely do we look at the soul line, which is how we need to be while we're doing that. Right? And a lot of my high achievers have focused all their life on the goal line.

And that's where it got them to the CEO position. And also, if you only focus on the goal line, you will eventually burn out and become exhausted. Because what happens is you achieve, you rarely celebrate the achievement, you just set another goal and you achieve. Exhaust yourself to hit that goal, set another goal and achieve. So focusing on the soul line, which is how you want to show up and who you want to be on this journey is the true deeper work.

Carrie Williams (31:53.813)
Once you trust that you will achieve goals, then what matters is how you're achieving them. Does that make sense?

Dr Kelly Culver (32:03.077)
total sense.

Jenn Quader (32:04.801)
Brilliantly. It's interesting, I just saw on the social media, I saw a little quote, who knows if it was real, but a quote by Jim Carrey. And it said, I hope everyone has the chance to get rich and famous so they can know that that's not the answer. And I think that's what you're speaking to, is these people who have set that goal line very high, they are working toward those goals. But when they get to those goals, if they have not taken care of the soul, if they have not looked at and asked that great question you asked earlier,

You mentioned it in one of your stories. You said the guy said I don't care about quotas. I don't care. And you said what do you care about? So I think that's just a brilliant way of looking at Even a lot of people who are high achievers and who actually achieve tremendous things in life a lot of highly wealthy people You find out that they're not happy you find out that they are overusing drugs or they're you know, whatever those things are

And a lot of that ties back to being able to do that soul work. I think that's really interesting. I also think it ties a little bit to a very interesting concept that I want to, that is yours, Carrie. And I want to bring it up just before we go into rapid fire questions. But you have a really interesting line that I just love and I want our audience to know this. It is called, a mushroom. What an interesting thing. So will you please unpack that metaphor for us? Help us understand what does be a mushroom mean and why does it matter to resilience?

Carrie Williams (33:27.969)
Yes, so I used to joke and call myself a delicate flower, right? To my husband, I'm like, I'm a delicate flower. delicata fiori. But I thought about it and delicate flowers are gorgeous and stunning and precious, but they only thrive under very limited circumstances.

very unique, very specific circumstances. It gets a little too hot, they fail to bloom, gets a little too cold, they shrivel up. And I was like, that's not very resilient. That's like the antithesis of resilience, right? And so I started thinking about it and I wanted to figure out what, what's a great example of resilience. And I thought about the humble little mushroom. And mushrooms, mushrooms thrive in shit.

Right?

Jenn Quader (34:24.045)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (34:25.069)
And the stinkier the better.

Carrie Williams (34:26.723)
The stinkier the better. They go, look at this pile of poo. I'm going to make something amazing from this. This is awesome. Mushrooms grow in the dark. They don't need sunlight. There are some mushrooms that are so amazing, they provide their own light in the darkness, which means they're lighting for others around them. Mushrooms are so connected and intertwined that they speak to each other across, underneath the bed of the forest.

A mushroom on one side of the forest can send through the network information to a mushroom on the other side of the forest. So they're really interconnected. And then there are some mushrooms that are just fun, but not even counting those mushrooms. I thought, why? Why do we strive to be beautiful flowers when we should be striving to be mushrooms?

Jenn Quader (35:20.725)
be a mushroom. I really do. And I especially want to be one of those mushrooms that shines for the other ones. What an amazing concept.

Carrie Williams (35:28.225)
No, not only that, but mushrooms are medicine, right? They're from the structural, I read an entire long book called The Rebel's Apothecary about the medicinal benefits of not just fancy psychedelic mushrooms, but normal mushrooms. They are medicine. They help our cells heal themselves.

Dr Kelly Culver (35:50.349)
I have learned so much. This is fascinating.

Carrie Williams (35:50.371)
So let's help you mushrooms.

Jenn Quader (35:54.092)
telling you it really really is and I love the comparison to the delicate flower just as a woman in the world I think that there's you know and looking at femininity I think that there is kind of a feeling of like being a delicate flower and I think that mushroom because there's another tichnot Han talks a lot about taking your the challenges the anger that whatever you have and kind of cultivating it into love

Dr Kelly Culver (35:59.471)
Mm.

Jenn Quader (36:20.449)
And when I see your mushrooms in their shit, that's what they're doing. They're taking the negative and they're really transitioning into a positive. And I think that's one of the great definitions of the many definitions of resilience. There's so many definitions, but a lot of it is that ability not just to have the momentum you talked about, the steady momentum, but to be in the poo and be able to shine.

Carrie Williams (36:42.927)
Here's the thing, there's a lot of poo in the world. We're surrounded by poo and people are flinging it at us and we're going to get hit by it. But are we going to panic and freak out and go, oh, now I can't function? Or are we going to go, all right, I can thrive here as well. I'm sturdy enough, I'm strong enough, I'm resilient enough. I'm going to play this game and have fun.

Jenn Quader (36:46.697)
So much poo! Yes!

Jenn Quader (37:08.813)
I really want to tell a poo story. Can I tell a poo story on Resilience Eat the Podcast?

Dr Kelly Culver (37:11.481)
Go ahead. go ahead. Yeah, do it. Yeah, we're good.

Carrie Williams (37:12.109)
Yeah, are always...

Jenn Quader (37:14.785)
So, but it's so interesting with this mushroom thing. So I had a family member of mine call me and they had had a really bad fight with their loved one, with their other half. And I mean, it was a yucky one. And what I used then was a poo metaphor. And I said, I said, listen to this person that I loved. said, what you guys did is you guys just threw poo all over yourselves. You rolled in it, you threw it all over yourselves. As we talk today, I do not want you to describe the poo.

I don't wanna know if there was corn in it. I don't wanna know anything about it. I only want you to tell me what matters right now. And I think that's such an interesting, when we look at being a mushroom and how to be a mushroom, and when we look at what Carrie Williams just said, which is there's a lot of poo in the world. That poo is everything. It's not just life. It's also what we do with our interpersonal relationships. And so if we can see it and work to rise above it and work to not sit in it, roll in it,

but grow out of it, that I think is just brilliant resilience.

Carrie Williams (38:14.745)
So Jen, what you're talking about is reframing the poo. It's not denying that the poo is there, but it's seeing that even in poo there is a gift. For a mushroom, that gift is nutrition and nutrients to grow. So even when you feel like you're in the worst situation you could be in, there is a gift in there if you can calm yourself down enough to see it.

A few years ago, I lost my mom. My mom had cancer and we lost her after a 21 month battle. And it started out, thought it was stage one, grade one. When they went in to do a hysterectomy, they're like, it's stage four, grade five, which is the worst it could be. We went through three rounds of chemo, different chemo and an experimental drug treatment and we lost her. When I think about that, there's nothing, there's no gift in that, right? That just sucked. I didn't want to have to do it.

It was sad, it was hard, and it changed my entire family. Now I have a little distance, there was a huge gift. The resilience and the strength that I got from going through that journey with my mom, I can handle anything. Somebody gets laid off, it's not a big deal. Right? The stock market takes a hit, it's not a big deal.

We have a fight, it's not a big deal because I get through really hard things. So that experience showed me that I can handle more than I think I can handle and that's a gift, right? And so I think if we're gonna just mix metaphors here, we need to practice looking for the gold nuggets in the piles of poo because they're there.

Dr Kelly Culver (40:05.409)
And also practice, know, what you've also just described. It's in the poo also could be a caterpillar who cocoons and becomes a butterfly. You know, and you take the joyful and the joyous things that you find along your journey going through the poo and you transform them into something that's bigger and better. And it changes your outlook on life. Yeah, and you've done that.

Carrie Williams (40:29.433)
Yeah.

Carrie Williams (40:34.991)
And I'm growing tomatoes right now because I haven't killed them yet, which is amazing. And you know how I feed those tomatoes? With worm poo and chicken poo.

Dr Kelly Culver (40:38.286)
You

Jenn Quader (40:50.189)
The world is circularity just exists in the world. It's a poo nation here at Resiliency, the podcast, but really, who the poo knew? I will tell you, Carrie, I'm so inspired by what you're bringing to the table because of the depth of it. And I want to thank you for sharing that story about your mom, because I think it is beautiful to know that if we are the turtle in the tortoise and the hare,

Dr Kelly Culver (40:59.257)
Who knew?

Jenn Quader (41:18.805)
as we're going steadily through, we might not realize, like you said, it wasn't a gift in that moment, but later on it becomes a gift. It's really a true testament to resilience. I think I wanna hand it over to Dr. Kelly because we have some very exciting rapid fire questions to take you through at the end, Carrie. But before we do that, is there anything we haven't asked you that you wanna make sure that our audiences here at Resilience with the Podcast know?

Carrie Williams (41:43.535)
we've covered the gamut. We've talked about poo and mushrooms and resilience and willingness. I would say...

The one thing we haven't really talked about is giving ourselves grace, right? If we're working at building momentum and achieving great things and showing up as our best self, we also need to recognize that we are human first. So we are not meant to be perfect, we will not be perfect. And don't beat yourself up for being imperfect. Acknowledge it and keep moving.

And I think that's the best way we can love ourselves.

Dr Kelly Culver (42:26.115)
And that comes with wisdom, you know, and you take people through the journey of how they can understand and see things differently through wisdom.

Carrie Williams (42:35.577)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (42:36.869)
So if you're ready, I have some questions for you. Okay. Okay. Come in, get in close, get in close. All right. So what's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?

Carrie Williams (42:39.501)
Okay, I'm gonna focus up here.

Jenn Quader (42:42.133)
Rapid fire, rapid fire.

Carrie Williams (42:50.041)
Ted Lasso. It got me through the pandemic. He a goldfish. He's so, he should be a coach for goodness sake. And I just want him to be my friend.

Dr Kelly Culver (42:51.353)
No!

Dr Kelly Culver (43:01.591)
Okay, good, good pick, good pick. Now how about a song that makes you feel resilient?

Carrie Williams (43:07.051)
I really love Rise Up by Andra Day. Do you know that song? Every time I hear that song, it makes me feel inspired and it makes me feel powerful and it makes me feel like a phoenix rising from the ashes. It's a song about resilience.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:10.885)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:22.487)
It is, it is, and that's a lovely metaphor. The phoenix rising from the ashes with rise up, yeah. What's the last thing that made you laugh out loud, really hard?

Carrie Williams (43:34.553)
So I have a cat, her name is Cricket. She actually has a much longer name than that. And she's a rescue cat and she's missing all of her little front teeth between her fangs. So her tongue sticks out all the time.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:48.483)
I bet she has a lisp when she talks to you.

Carrie Williams (43:51.471)
And she's just the derpiest little thing and sometimes she'll just look at me the right way with that tongue sticking out and it makes me... Ugh, it makes me crack up. And I feel bad because I hope she knows I'm not laughing at her. Even though I am.

Jenn Quader (44:05.675)
No, I'm sure she knows. I'm sure she can feel that love. That is awesome. The derpiness. I feel it. I feel it.

Dr Kelly Culver (44:06.245)
So funny.

Dr Kelly Culver (44:13.903)
You gotta send us a picture of the cat so we can put it up on the website when your episode comes out. We need a picture of the cat, okay? Note to self. my gosh, okay, my last question for you is what is a question that you would like to leave for a future guest?

Carrie Williams (44:20.431)
All right, I absolutely will.

Carrie Williams (44:34.351)
So this is the hardest question, right? Because so many beautiful questions have already been asked.

But if we're gonna keep with the theme of what we're talking about, let's just keep it simple. What matters to you?

Jenn Quader (44:50.477)
Beautiful. Perfect question. Now, Carrie, I have one question for you from one of our past guests. So here it is. What is one belief or behavior that you had to let go of in order to be resilient?

Carrie Williams (45:11.331)
The believer behavior that I had to let go of in order to be resilient was the idea that I had to prove that I was enough.

Dr Kelly Culver (45:20.901)
Hmm.

Carrie Williams (45:21.567)
earn, earn the seat at the table, like earn the titles. You know, it wasn't enough just to be a wife, I had to be a really good wife and what did that look like? And it wasn't enough to be a student, I had to be a really good student. It wasn't enough to be me, I had to be really great. And once I realized that just what I bring to the table is enough, I'm never not gonna be a high achiever, that's just how I'm driven. But I was so focused on the achievement that I got that...

even without the achievement, I'm a full, whole, interesting, amazing person. But I thought that it was the achievement that made me whole and interesting. And so I thought that if we took the achievement away, I would not be enough.

The opposite is true.

Jenn Quader (46:14.285)
That's the joy of life. You're talking about intrinsic value and it's so beautiful that you found yours and it's even more beautiful that you've done all the work that you've talked about on this episode in order to be able to truly help others find that intrinsic passion. Carrie, we are inspired by you. You really are a shining light of resilience. Please, will you tell our guests and listeners of Resilience to the Podcast, where can they find you online and where can they buy that fabulous book, The Kickass Guide to Setting Goals?

Dr Kelly Culver (46:30.661)
Mm.

Carrie Williams (46:42.415)
Okay, so Eyes on the Prize, a kick-ass guide to setting and achieving great goals is on Amazon. You can also go to Eyes on the Prize book if you want a signed copy with a little extras. You can find me at rainshadowcoaching.com. My email, if you want to reach out to me directly, and I am open to that, is Carrie, C-A-R-R-I-E at rainshadowcoaching.com. And I'm on LinkedIn. Now, there are a million Carries on LinkedIn, so look for Carrie Williams Coach.

because there's about 500 of us. It's not truly a million, but there is a lot of Kerry Williams in the world. But you can find me if you look.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:14.887)
Okay.

Jenn Quader (47:18.541)
Fabulous and listeners. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us for today's episode of resiliency the podcast You can find me Jen Quater online at Jen Quater j e n n q u a d e r on all the socials or at my company the smart agency comm as always our illustrious brilliant wonderful co-host dr. Kelly Culver She is the queen of Canada. You can find her at dr. Kelly Culver on LinkedIn or Instagram and also at the Culver group dot ca That's the Culver group dot ca

And ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who are listening, if resilience is something that you care about, we ask that you subscribe to our YouTube channel or just click like wherever you're listening to us today. Resiliency the podcast is the place for stories and strategies to help us embrace change, overcome challenges and really redefine resilience in this ever changing world in which we live. With that, we just invite you to continue to tune in and we hope to see you next week. Thank you, Kerry Williams and thank you to all of you. Be resilient, be strong.

and enjoy, we'll see you next time.