Resiliency The Podcast

Jenn Quader
Welcome to Resiliency, the podcast. Today's guest began her career as an attorney. She specialized in commercial real estate where she closed more than $20 billion worth of transactions. Today, she is an author and an executive coach. Her work empowers leaders, especially women in corporate and entrepreneurial spaces, to embrace change, build resilience,

and pivot with intention. So we know that all of our listeners here at Resiliency, the podcast are gonna really benefit from what she has to say. And there's more. She now has a company called Unscripted Pivots and her new book, which I have right here guys, and you have to check the show notes and get her. This book is called WTF, you guys. And it is for those people who really understand this what the bleep, but it's how do you reframe that?

Danielle Sprouls (02:01.55)
Thank you.

Dr Kelly Culver (02:02.626)
He he.

Jenn Quader (02:16.299)
How do you come back from that? And how do you turn moments into something that is powerful and purposeful? So today we're gonna hear about women that flourish, WTF, worth the fear, WTF, and a heck of a lot more. Guys, please, we are so excited to give a huge resiliency to the podcast. Welcome to Miss Danielle Sprouls.

Danielle Sprouls (02:16.302)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (02:37.694)
Yeah, and there she is clapping. Thank you, Jen. Thank you, Dr. Kelly. I'm thrilled to be on here. We got to speak for like a half a minute beforehand and I was like, oh, boy, is this a week based on resiliency? So I am here for this conversation and I'm here for the connection. I'm hungry this week for this type of connection and conversation. So thank you so much for the invite. Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (03:00.226)
We are delighted that you're here. We're delighted that you're here in spite of and despite of some of the things that are going on in the background where you are channeling your resilience to deal with all of the WTF that's going on in your world. So, Danielle, what does resiliency mean to you? Get us started there.

Danielle Sprouls (03:05.014)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Danielle Sprouls (03:21.292)
You know, I used to think that resiliency meant, you know, bouncing back, right? And getting grounded. And today I really understand that it is so much more than that. It's about bouncing forward for me. It's about taking all these WTF moments, which, you know, I describe in so many ways, but let's say where to focus when tiny first wake that flame, wisdom to failure and taking those moments and moving forward. Resilience is building a muscle.

Right, so that when you have your next unscripted pivot, the name of my company, you can actually move forward, not just stay grounded or take a step back. So it's all about flourishing for me in the end. That's what I would tell you.

Jenn Quader (04:05.609)
fascinated by this. love the description and I really like what you said, resilience is about building a muscle, you know, and I think that this is especially interesting in your journey Danielle because when I think about building a muscle, I think about that I could get really used to building those muscles the same way again and again and again and I could kind of fall into a habit of that and one of the things that happened in your life is that and again I'll restate for the audience here that

Dr Kelly Culver (04:10.626)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (04:32.171)
You know, here you were thriving in commercial real estate. You were doing $20 billion worth of deals. You're at the top of your game. And yet there was a pivot in your life. There was a moment where you decided, hey, I'm gonna flex muscles differently. I'm gonna start shifting this differently. I wonder if you'd talk to us a little bit about that turning point that made you step away from that identity and move into this coaching authorship and leadership work.

Danielle Sprouls (04:34.978)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (04:41.123)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (04:56.984)
You know, when I look back on my life as a whole, I would tell you that every chapter had an expiration date. So first being an attorney and then that took a backseat to me becoming a full-time mom and then becoming, being a full-time mom, stay at home, also had an expiration date, which is when I fell into commercial real estate and title insurance of all things. Who would think, you know, that was never...

Dr Kelly Culver (05:21.934)
you

Danielle Sprouls (05:23.702)
that was never on my agenda, another unscripted pivot, doing that for 23 plus years at the forefront, because I still do do that on the back burner. I have relationships intact that will summon me when they're closing some transactions. And that's big and beautiful, but it's very much on the back burner. going that that also started to kind of wane. My interest started to wane, not in the people, not in the industry, but in my role within that.

that industry. And I no longer wanted to be out there selling insurance policies. And, you know, it didn't it didn't matter that the paycheck was safe. And I liked it. And I liked the community. But I will tell you, I stayed in that a little bit too long. And what that looked for, for me was a WTF work toward fulfillment. So I wasn't miserable, but I wasn't fulfilled. And I finally had the courage to honor that intuitive poll.

to move in a different direction. But it wasn't about reinventing myself so much as expansion, because all of the things that I learned as an attorney with critical thinking and as a mother, oh, talk about resilience. I mean, a walk in that park with four of them, right? And so, you know, you may not, we all know we don't control people, places, and things in the world, right? And so, but you don't control children. You don't control tiny people, okay? So, you know, being the CEO of that company was like, you know, that's what I hearing.

Dr Kelly Culver (06:35.246)
Hahaha!

Danielle Sprouls (06:49.678)
And then, know, but knowing that I wanted to have a work life, I wanted to have a business life, all that higher education that I had worked so hard on and financially, emotionally invested in, it called me back. It said, hey, you know what, you belong in corporate America as well. And so doing that, and then the departure, you know, all of those things, they're so interesting to me because the earlier ones I ripped off with a band-aid, I made the decisions to...

leave being a full-time attorney and then leaving being a stay-at-home mom and then going into commercial real estate. That was kind of quick and fast when I knew it. It was long and drawn out when I was leaving the commercial real estate space. And it's very scary to look at what is essentially a blank canvas at first and not recognize that it's not so barren.

I thought, what will this look like? And I forgot all of the skills that accumulated along the way and the relationships that I had built that this would be moving forward. It just might look different. So it required a lot of resilience in the whole, where I thematically will tell you, it's about bouncing forward, not just bouncing back. So, yeah.

Jenn Quader (08:05.415)
Kelly if you have something or if not because I have of course I have some thoughts so what do you think?

Dr Kelly Culver (08:05.45)
It's... Of course you have some thoughts, but let's just pick up on some language, Danielle, that you've been using, which is really very interesting. So you talk about resilience as a muscle. And for the last six or seven years, the World Economic Forum has been telling countries they need to build a resilience muscle.

Danielle Sprouls (08:14.872)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (08:20.248)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (08:29.238)
Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (08:30.058)
So I think that that's really, really quite fascinating. And the other thing is around the expiration date.

Danielle Sprouls (08:35.854)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (08:36.492)
And what's important about that is that so many people feel that an expiration date actually is the end. That's it. There is, there's, there's no ability for me to see through the fog to see that there's another path open to me. When the expiration date happens, then everything is that that's game over. That's life over. That's all of those things. And so I think it's really fitting that you talk about pivot and change and looking, looking through different things to bounce forward or to leap ahead. So.

Danielle Sprouls (08:43.948)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (09:06.517)
Jen I'll turn it over to you before I come back and ask you about being the WTF lady because I'm super curious about that.

Jenn Quader (09:13.473)
It's the best, the WTF lady. But before that, I wanna sit on expiration dates for a little bit, because I think this is part of the magic that is Danielle Sprouls I really do. I think there are a lot of people out there who are all about the business or all about the life. And Danielle is very much all about the integration of where those things meet. I'll comment, like for example, in the WTF book, there's a lot about career, there's a lot about action and goal setting, but then...

Danielle Sprouls (09:13.505)
Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (09:16.3)
Ha ha ha!

Danielle Sprouls (09:22.798)
Mm.

Danielle Sprouls (09:32.759)
Yes.

Jenn Quader (09:41.469)
your expiration date even extends to grief. She talks a little bit about losing her grandmother, Dee Dee, and about things like this. And so what I wanna talk about, I wanna bring it to a big picture discussion because here we have people listening to us. Some of them are trying to improve in their careers. Some of them just trying to get through the day. There's stuff going on. How, when you get to this place where an expiration date is approaching, and I think it's wise, I heard you say, this can take a little bit. It can take some time to work through these transitions. But how do people...

What can they do? What are some actionable Danielle Sprouls WTF tips that people can really do to grab the courage that they need to walk through those pivots when those expiration dates are approaching?

Danielle Sprouls (10:25.336)
I think there's a mindset shift that is necessary to find the courage and clarity to move forward. One of my chapters is WTF, One Transition Fuels. And if we shift our mindset to it's not so much an ending as it's a transition, it's a transformation, like let's put some T words to this, right? This is not so scary, but it's so easy to get more caught up in, well, I want to see the future.

Dr Kelly Culver (10:47.042)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (10:55.366)
We always want to see how this is going to play out and we don't get that crystal ball. None of us get the crystal ball. We can plan all we want and I believe in planning. I don't believe in plans per se because things always get re-rooted sometimes in small ways, sometimes in very big ways. And so the vision should stay the same but I, know, at the end of the day, expiration dates aren't really necessarily endings as they're an opportunity for transformation.

And you know, it that helps me with the closure of this will look different, but it doesn't make it void. It doesn't make it like still have value in my in my life. I just am doing those things, maybe a little bit less or a little bit differently. All those roles, right? And so when I am coaching clients, they're usually in career transition. It doesn't always mean that they're going from one company to the next or a different role. Sometimes they're leveling up.

What they do know is that there's change. And that's where we all can kind of get a little tripped up like, this isn't familiar. And that's where resilience becomes so important. And what I encourage my clients to do and myself, I have to remind is like, let's look back at our track record. When we talk about resilience as a muscle, we have to look at all of the different wins that we had, right? And WTF, win tiny first.

but we also have to look at the missteps, the stumbles, which are so important in life. WTF, wisdom through failure. All these F-bombs, right? So WTF, my book, it's funny, people go, gosh, she's like swearing here, right? And yes, there is a little bit of that, but what it really means is we're here to redefine that F-word, right? And so failure and fear.

are two things that people try to get away from. But if you introduce resiliency, if you look at all of that, track record and how you overcame and how you got through stuff, I mean, it really is a no brainer. And that's why I love coaching because I get to be an accountability partner and somebody that's cheerleading them through that transition. And, you know, it doesn't mean I do it perfectly. It just means that I know a little bit more about it because I do practice what I preach.

Danielle Sprouls (13:16.152)
but that was no overnight matter. A lot of this comes from pain and you decide what's your pain. There's always gonna be discomfort. Are you going to stay the same and be in that discomfort or are you going to move forward, practice your resiliency and grow? Because that too is uncomfortable. Choose your pain is what I'm gonna tell you about that.

Jenn Quader (13:39.423)
I'm like the kids, I'm clocking. I'm like, you clocked that, you clocked that.

Danielle Sprouls (13:41.902)
Clogging. You're so funny.

Dr Kelly Culver (13:45.089)
Yep.

Jenn Quader (13:46.401)
Choose your pain is really, it's fascinating to me. And because I want to say, first of all, Danielle and I had a chance to speak on a panel together several years ago. It was about podcasting. And I'll tell our guests if they look it up, Unscripted Pivots is a podcast that does exist. And it is wonderful. Go back and listen to episodes. They're just fabulous. And I'm

Danielle Sprouls (14:03.63)
And you're on it, you're on it. That was so great.

Dr Kelly Culver (14:07.431)
Ha ha ha ha!

Jenn Quader (14:12.577)
panel long before the podcast was I remember you talking about failing forward. And I think that that has so much to do with this idea that you have. It's not about bouncing back, it's about bouncing forward. And then I wanted to say one other thing and then I'd love for Dr. Kelly to jump in and ask her questions, but you mentioned failure and fear as the two things that people are always trying to avoid. I think I can, know, feeling the failure is...

Danielle Sprouls (14:14.606)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Danielle Sprouls (14:23.843)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (14:30.434)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (14:37.093)
is nerve-wrecking, but fear is something that's everywhere, you know? And one thing that I have, like a little poster, I'm looking down at it right now, I have a little poster that says, fear can either mean forget everything and run, or face everything and rise. And I think that's what I take from what you're saying is like, you face everything, good, bad, ugly, you let the pain go through, and then you rise through that.

Danielle Sprouls (14:48.576)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (15:00.076)
Well, that's the message. That's not necessarily what I practice on the daily. am human. And, you know, we began this podcast I shared with you. Life is life thing in the home right now with my husband having that fall and, you know, WTF, why the fall? And all of a sudden we've got a broken femur. so, you know, there are things, but that is the message, right? Face everything and rise. And so my mother and I talk about this in my book, Jen. And so you probably remember she always said to me early on fear when I was, you know, concerned about whether or

I was gonna make the cheerleading team or the softball team whatever it was I was always caught up in my perfectionism back then and So it helped me back in not trying a lot of things and she said Danielle you just you you live in fear Fe ar future events already ruined She said you you just forecast exactly what's gonna happen and it didn't even come to past it probably won't and so That that's one that's near and dear to me that you're not gonna see written in books because my mother made that one up the other ones I have seen but you know, here's the thing, you know what?

What I want to say is that let's start seeing the value in fear and failure. There's so much value there. Fear is when it comes up, all that's, I mean, assuming that a grizzly bear is not running after your butt, like, you know, that's real fear. I mean, like, pay attention to that. But the other stuff, right, the fact is is that all that is is you being put on notice that something's important, you being putting on notice that there's a change maybe that's ahead and that there's gonna be a pivot that's demanded of you.

It's fuel. When you harness your fear, you can use it as fuel. It does not need to own you. I encourage others to make friends with your fear. This is not so big, bad, and ugly.

as the world would make it or as we have learned or have I've been taught. So a lot of learning has to be unlearned. That's what that's been my experience in the last decade for sure. I've had to unlearn a lot of things that I thought I knew already. when failure, mean failure, all a failure is is feedback. Failure's like, we're just going, not that way.

Danielle Sprouls (17:03.786)
Okay then, do you know what I mean? Be grateful for the information. This is like give yourself space and grace. Space and grace. When I became an entrepreneur, I had to embrace failure and I continue to on the daily. I am now living in roles and wearing hats that I did not have to have in corporate America. I mean name the hat, know, from bookkeeping to marketing to... Please, okay? It's been a lot.

have to do a lot of things I am not naturally good at and I have to be willing to be a beginner again and again and my message to everybody is if it's calling you, go for it. You know, do it.

Dr Kelly Culver (17:46.882)
You've talked a lot about fear, failure, the F. So I think we've come through a lot of the different acronyms and what WTF could mean and does mean in your world. And a lot of it is in response to, one of the things that we see is people want predictability and they're uncomfortable when they can't predict what tomorrow's going to look like because they can't pre-plan the solution they think they need to the problem that might happen. Or they can't think through the fog.

this concept of uncertainty. We see it in people, we see it in companies. It is the number one message that we're hearing globally. What's your biggest fear? Uncertainty. Because I can't plan and predict a solution, a problem and a solution. I can't just see the path. we're uncomfortable going through that fog of the fear, the failure, the fun, the fabulousness that comes from these things because

Danielle Sprouls (18:39.895)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (18:46.018)
You can't, you have to go through these things. You can't tack around them. You have to go through them so that you build that muscle. And I'm really curious in your WTF moments and the acronyms and things like that, actually what I'd like to hear from you is how are people responding to you? How have they responded to that reframing on what WTF means?

Danielle Sprouls (18:53.965)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (19:06.998)
Yes, you know what, I'm pleased to share that there's been a tremendous amount of support and happy response to this because really what I'm saying isn't not necessarily new, but it's through a different lens that introduces some humor, some levity, some boldness.

And in that, people are able to dial it down, dial it back a bit. That's what I'm seeing. There's sections in that book that are called WTF What's the Fix? And I give strategic tactics on how you can handle whatever I was talking about in the earlier paragraph. It has been embraced because it's fun, right? It's gonna happen anyway. We're guaranteed a few things in life. They always say death and taxes and also curve balls. We're all gonna get.

those surprises. The only thing certain is that uncertainty exists to your point, Dr. Kelly. And so it's about getting comfortable with that. One of the things that I have been, you we talk about the resiliency muscle is I've been building a stronger muscle around surrender and around acceptance, acceptance of that truth that I, Danielle, am not going to single handedly change that.

Dr Kelly Culver (20:14.862)
Mmm.

Danielle Sprouls (20:21.44)
And acceptance, to be clear, does not mean approval. I used to think that when I accepted something, I was giving it my, like, A-OK. These are two very different things, acceptance and approval. There are a lot of things that are going to happen in life that I don't approve of. But when I come at them with acceptance, from that point on, I can move with some clarity. And where I'm always looking to go is into peace.

I just want to have peace. Okay, not perfect peace, but you more peace than I probably would after I turned on the news and I sat there for 15 minutes looking at the state of affairs in the world. I'm looking for more peace. I'm looking for more joy. I'm looking for more humility, always. Less humility, more humility, less concern about what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, but more about others.

because one of the things when I get frenetic, and like I said, this week was kind of tough for us because of this curveball and to see my husband in so much pain and the surgeons and it was just crazy. I thought, okay, you know what? I need to make some calls after the announcements of John's condition right now, which, you know, he's healing, he'll be fine, thank God. But I wanted to call friends and say, how can I help you? Get outside of self and you will be in a state of gratitude, a state of peace.

And there, that's how I can summon the resilience muscle. Otherwise, I'm just spinning. I'm just spinning because I'm looking for certainty where there is none, except that doesn't exist. Some days more than others. I am spiritual by nature. I strengthen my spiritual muscle. I pay close attention to how I can nurture that. Sometimes that means doing things and sometimes that means intentionally not doing certain things.

Those are two very different lanes. Both of them should be paid attention to is what I'll tell you on that. I have faith. People have to believe in my opinion in something bigger than themselves. For me, that is God. For other people, it's the universe. It's the ocean, whatever it is. Just know that you are not the only, you you are not the highest being on this planet. And when you accept that, things go a lot smoother. And you know what? For me,

Danielle Sprouls (22:47.488)
I have relief in that I don't have to fix it all. Not only acknowledgement that I can't fix it all and can't change it all, but that I don't have to. You know, so, you know, that's where this mindset goes. I hope that makes sense.

Jenn Quader (23:01.737)
It

Dr Kelly Culver (23:02.974)
Tons of wisdom, tons and tons and tons of wisdom, yes.

Danielle Sprouls (23:07.49)
Inco.

Jenn Quader (23:08.619)
I agree, Tenza was in like, so like my brain is like, like pop, like you guys remember Pop Rocks the Candy, my brain's like pop, pop, pop, pop, because I'm, it's so cool to me when you say summon the resilience muscle. And what I heard you say is like, hey, I'm going through a tough time right now, you know, real extra stress. And so I know for me reaching out and you're speaking in Danielle's words, reaching out to others helps me to summon that muscle. And that makes me think about like,

Dr Kelly Culver (23:13.048)
hahahaha

Danielle Sprouls (23:13.964)
Yes, yes.

Danielle Sprouls (23:29.614)
Yeah. It does.

Jenn Quader (23:33.279)
what are the actionable things we can do to summon that muscle? You mentioned, you also talked about, I love this thing, it's not about reinvention, it's about expansion. And this I think comes back to this muscle, it's like, I'm not trying to create something from scratch, this all just is in me, I am, you are a spirit. And that comes back to like, we have to surrender, we have to let the energy move through us. So again, pop rocks, lots of things happening in my head.

Danielle Sprouls (23:43.384)
Mm.

Danielle Sprouls (23:57.773)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (24:01.141)
But the question I would have, and I kind of want to ask Dr. Kelly, I want to put Dr. Kelly a little bit on the spot too, but this idea of summoning your resilience muscle. My question is, Dr. Kelly has a company that focuses the resilience nexus on helping companies to find and enhance their organizational resilience and then leaders within those companies. Danielle, you're a coach, you're helping humans do that. I'm helping clients do that on a communication standpoint. How about we throw out some ideas? What are some ideas people are using to summon their resilience muscle?

Dr Kelly Culver (24:06.315)
great.

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (24:21.667)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (24:32.461)
Well, I mean, you can think of it in, when I think of things, I think of them in threes and they're not steps. They're a ball that's always moving constantly. And in many ways it's you survive. So you come through something, you survive. And that's not just about bouncing back. That's just about, you know, here's the situation we survive. How do we optimize that now?

Danielle Sprouls (24:39.896)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (24:46.968)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (24:56.621)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (24:57.324)
And once we've optimized it, how do we turn that into something where a situation in which we can thrive? So when we talk to companies, we use that language. How do you survive? How do you optimize? How do you thrive? And how do you do all three things at the same time? The big mistake people and institutions make is they see them as silos, right? But we don't live like that in our life.

Danielle Sprouls (25:06.669)
in.

Dr Kelly Culver (25:21.238)
If there's something that comes along and hits us, we have to persist, have to adapt, we have to transform.

So we talk to companies to think about their strategies and the way they look at the world slightly differently, that it isn't always through a lens of risk or how much money I'm going to lose or I can't predict the market or those kinds of things. It's how do you take this trinity of survival, optimize, thrive and apply it in what you do from the guy who opens the door to the woman who's making the executive decisions.

Danielle Sprouls (25:37.784)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (25:55.278)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (25:57.473)
Danielle, what do you think on the personal coaching side, know, through Unscripted Pivots, you are coaching leaders at all levels. How are some of those leaders, how are they summoning their resilience? And I think you hit on some of this in the book, so, but yeah, talk to us a little bit about that.

Danielle Sprouls (26:04.078)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (26:11.562)
I, you know, you know, the first thing is about getting brutally honest with the situation. So we'll talk about acceptance and surrender right there. The reluctance to pivot because it seems like a failure move, right? Because now we're departing from the plan. That usually is the biggest obstacle initially.

All right, well, that's not what we were going to do. And you get fixated on that and not looking at that so much as a failure as well. That was your stepping stone. I mean, everything, you know, that I talk about is about.

rerouting and understanding it as an invitation to pivot but to pivot with like you know purpose and clarity and intention and not to look at it like a departure from what you thought was going to be successful. The vision doesn't necessarily have to always change. What happens is your GPS just goes off track.

Okay? And we get that in our car on the daily. In fact, my newsletter that goes out today is talking about exactly that. And I have like a little detour sign and a map. And you know, we go out there saying this is the way only to find out that that's not always the case. And so when I'm coaching people, the first thing that I'm usually experiencing is their reluctance. And where does the reluctance come from? It comes from fear and sometimes ego, ego.

Okay? And yeah, it's the ego. And Jen, you and I talked about this when I had you as a guest, EGO, edging goodness out. And I talk about that in my book. And every time, you know, I like to sit like, is what I'm feeling right now based on ego, right? And when I can answer that question, then I can get to the next question that I wanna ask myself. And all of these things are about being, you know, building the resiliency muscle, moving forward,

Dr Kelly Culver (27:32.246)
A lot of times, a lot of times.

Danielle Sprouls (28:01.166)
Flourishing not just bouncing back I love everything that dr. Kelly was saying and I was listening to it and I thought you know There is a choice though. Some people can't see past it and that's how companies or individuals fail they just fail because they can't do the steps that she was describing that she executes in her in her job in her profession and And that's a shame. So it's not that everybody has to pivot pivoting is a choice and pivoting is really what defines us and everybody thinks that

Dr Kelly Culver (28:15.512)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (28:30.978)
I'm about the WTF moment and it's not about the WTF moment. It is about what you do with the WTF moment. That is what defines us. Yes, and there is so much, yeah, there's so much power in that because what we have to remember is that in that we do have a choice. Now we may not like all of our choices at the time.

Dr Kelly Culver (28:42.134)
It's your response. It's your response, yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (28:56.642)
But if we park the ego, if we park the fear, if we just push this aside and we examine it from a bit of a distance and add a dose to faith, because I'm always about like, you know, have some faith that this could actually work out just because it doesn't look the same, right? This is where we can get to levels that we only dreamed about, whether that's in your personal life or your business. I will tell you, I would have sold myself short if everything worked out the way that I had planned.

I am so amused by my life because the majority of it is not scripted by me. In fact, some of it is like anti-scripted by me. The things I said I would not do, you know, get married young or have as many children or get married for a second time. I was like, hell to the no on all of that stuff. And here I am, one of the most blessed people I know. My life is not perfect.

by any stretch, but I am perfectly happy with it. That's what I'll tell you about that.

Jenn Quader (30:03.297)
I'm completely in love and I want to restate for anyone, like what Danielle said is, I would have sold myself short if I did what I had planned. I think that's such a huge, you know, and I'm with you. I personally, it's God for me, but I think it's the universe for others and energy for others. But whatever that larger power is, there is something bigger driving us. And I think that this comes back to surrender.

Danielle Sprouls (30:12.14)
Yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (30:20.492)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (30:29.525)
And so again, I'll step out of the faith part and just go into like the everyday life part. There is a benefit in letting go, you know? Yeah, they're huge. It's the only way. And I think when you talked about reluctance, and I can really feel that being like the number one thing that as women leaders that you're working with, they're reluctant to make that decision because they're afraid not only to...

Danielle Sprouls (30:36.741)
yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jenn Quader (30:56.011)
like what might happen, but I also wanna say what I heard in that was that they're also, and this comes back to that ego, edging goodness out, they're afraid of how it might look. They're afraid of how does it look when they drop their career and they go do something else and what is that gonna look like? And I just wanted to add to the conversation that I had a friend recently that I was chatting with and I was talking about commitment skills. And the friend said, well, do you wanna look committed or be committed?

Danielle Sprouls (31:04.834)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (31:20.143)
Hahaha, so good!

Jenn Quader (31:22.305)
And I was like, drop that mic. So I think when you talk about from the individual journey, there's a surrender that's necessary in order to become committed to allowing ourselves to kind of be the instrument in the hand of the player, to allow ourselves. And like you said, if I planned my own, I wouldn't sing as beautifully, but I have to kind of let that energy move through me. And then I'll end with, kind of queuing up Dr. Kelly.

Danielle Sprouls (31:24.174)
Yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (31:37.784)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (31:43.811)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (31:49.493)
which is to say in her world of the companies looking at this when they are surviving optimizing and thriving, I think in addition to being committed to it, I would tie that to what you said Danielle about feedback. You said, know, feedback is a gift and failure is feedback. And when Dr. Kelly is talking about optimizing, that's feedback. That is looking at where are your problems and what are you having and doing that. So that's my perception. What do you think Dr. K? Dr. KC?

Dr Kelly Culver (32:17.416)
Hahaha!

Dr Kelly Culver (32:22.53)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (32:26.551)
I do, yep.

Jenn Quader (32:27.947)
hit it. We're in a new time zone now that we're in Paris.

is she in London? What? I thought she was in Paris.

Danielle Sprouls (32:37.858)
She was. She mentioned she was in Paris. She's been all over.

Dr Kelly Culver (32:39.758)
Thank

Jenn Quader (32:40.021)
Yeah. Beautiful. I said it's a new time zone, but then I thought you were still in Paris, so I was all excited.

Dr Kelly Culver (32:42.39)
Nighttime in London! There we are.

Dr Kelly Culver (32:51.082)
Okay, so I'm going to ask you question. we've been, so where do you, where do we want to target in just so we've got this tiny teensy timeout? Where do you want me to start in the script?

Jenn Quader (32:57.953)
Good question.

Jenn Quader (33:02.433)
I was asking Dr. Kelly and I kind of thought like Dr. Kelly, you would let move it. We can move toward, cause I think we've hit almost everything unless you want to, yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (33:08.618)
I do too, that's what, no, no, me too.

Danielle Sprouls (33:15.342)
Hmm

Dr Kelly Culver (33:18.21)
Yes.

Dr Kelly Culver (33:21.824)
Okay, I'll do that.

Jenn Quader (33:28.257)
Yeah. Awesome. And do you remember what I had just asked, Kelly? I'll kind of say it back. So what I had said was I was talking, you know, please, I was talking about how like Danielle on the on the individual side, we see people who are facing failure and kind of fear of like, do you want to do you want to look committed or be committed? So there's that ego piece. Then on the company side, as people are surviving, optimizing, thriving, I was saying I'm tying that to the idea of feedback that Danielle said failure is feedback and a company

Dr Kelly Culver (33:29.282)
Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (33:32.886)
No, ask me again. Please.

Jenn Quader (33:58.123)
can't survive if they can't take the feedback and optimize. So I wondered if you wanted to talk a little bit about how that works in an organizational environment.

Dr Kelly Culver (34:08.042)
Okay, interesting question, Jen, because so here's a little bit of theory and you know I'm not an academic but here's a little bit of theory. Resilience, you know what it is? First of all, it's a complex adaptive system built on feedback loops.

Danielle Sprouls (34:24.59)
Mm.

Dr Kelly Culver (34:25.686)
And resilience started in, you know, we can say it started in engineering or in ecology. But the point is that we don't have feedback loops. We don't know how to shift. We don't know how to pivot. We don't know how to transform. We don't know how to stay on track or change the whole track. And the only way we get that is through feedback loops of whatever kind. And a feedback loop could even be self-awareness, to come back to the comments the two of you have made around

And in the case of women in particular, learning not to care about what other people think. I'm paraphrasing what you said. You reach my stage where you don't give a damn about what people think. It's not caring, it's just I don't give a damn. And I've moved on. And I think I've reached a state in my life and my career I can behave like that.

Danielle Sprouls (35:02.9)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (35:04.661)
Did it beautifully.

Jenn Quader (35:10.977)
Woo woo woo woo.

Danielle Sprouls (35:23.234)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (35:23.542)
and I get away with it, which is really kind of cool. So it's like having that kind of confidence and Jen, we talk about this from time to time, pants of steel. You you put on your pants of steel and away you go.

Danielle Sprouls (35:31.789)
Mm-hmm.

Dr Kelly Culver (35:33.398)
So if we can come around maybe a little bit more to, there's this amazing book, WTF. Jen has a copy of it. So for those of you watching on YouTube, there it is, you can see WTF. So let's just take a couple minutes, Danielle, what are some key things, key messages that we haven't talked about today that you would like our audience to learn from and inspire them to pick up a copy of your book?

Danielle Sprouls (35:44.62)
Yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (35:48.142)
Yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (35:56.398)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (36:00.482)
Well, as I shared earlier, I'm on a mission to rebrand, redefine what WTF actually means. More than that, how it's experienced. So when somebody has that moment where they're thrown off course, their autopilot is disrupted, they're stopped in their tracks, that they can have that shift where after, okay, what the fuck, Ghana? Hey, hey, hey, wisdom through failure.

Dr Kelly Culver (36:27.118)
Hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (36:29.012)
I just learned something or hey, I didn't make my goal. WTF, win tiny first. Let's look at all the things I did to get towards where I am right now, this small win, and be like hey, I actually showed up in ways that I hadn't shown up before, right? WTF, wake that flame. I'm feeling stagnant. Everything's not like, I'm just off, I'm off my game, I'm off my energy. Wake that flame.

Dr Kelly Culver (36:46.904)
Mm.

Danielle Sprouls (36:58.57)
WTF. And so it's just about taking an acronym that's universally understood and considering it from an entirely new angle. I did not set out to do this. This is something that the universe delivered to me. And through the podcast Unscripted Pivots, which, know, I just love I love the title of that podcast, which then became the company's name, right? The LLC.

because I'm fascinated by all the unscripted pivots in our lives. I mean, I look at mine, I'm like, look at your track record. I mean, it's so zigzag, but so is everybody else. I'm not that special. And so, you know, but it got us from there to here. And let's talk about here and then, you know, where we're going from there. So it's just kind of fun. And when the podcast was born, I wanted to talk to women.

about their WTF moments, but we weren't gonna say that because that's kinda crude and I was tied to corporate America and I don't seek to offend. I don't mind to shock, I kinda like that, I'm a Jersey girl, but I don't seek to offend. And so WTF became Women That Flourish and that was because I'm an acronym nerd since law school. I see the world in acronyms. People say sentences and I've got acronyms going, like that's my brain is just going and it just does.

People will mention a word and then like, they'll have a T or, okay, here's resilience. And then all of sudden I'm doing all the R words in my head. Like, I, you know, I don't know, is it a gift or is it a defect? We're not sure. But this is the way this brain works. Don't give me math, don't give me numbers, don't give me geography, okay? I need the GPS to make it to the food store. No, so, but when it comes to words and writing, like I see that on a whole nother different level.

Let's just call it unique, we'll call it unique, okay? We don't know that it's better, it's just unique. So that's what really the WTF book is. When I came forward with the coaching and the speaking, and that became the mainstay, that was my career, not a back burner move, I did feel the need to put it out there in the world in some tangible form what my message was.

Danielle Sprouls (39:11.766)
It was not enough to have like the one or two conversations because I guess I didn't want to be misunderstood. More than that, I wanted to inspire and impact. I wanted the message to have a ripple effect. So when you spend the kind of time that you do to create a book and you put, and there's a lot of personal stories in there, so there's like an unveiling. I did not even recognize the healing journey that would be for me. I wrote that to help other people heal. And in the process,

I had the opportunity to heal. I had the opportunity to visit people, places, and things that are long gone and just re-examine them from another direction. it's interesting. I love the book. I'm already now writing a second book. Not as quickly as this one. Yeah, but that one's more of a business to business book. And of course it has to have an acronym because that's who I am. And so the book is called Master the Pivot.

but it's P-I-V-O-T, master the P-I-V-O-T, how bold leaders turn chaos into their competitive edge. Because at the heart of all of this is the pivot and what does that look like and how do we get there? And we're living in a time where things are really upended on so many levels, you know, with the introduction of AI and the elimination of so many jobs and.

Dr Kelly Culver (40:19.458)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well done.

Jenn Quader (40:19.999)
Yes!

Danielle Sprouls (40:37.698)
the political climate and there's just so much change that I feel that this is a book that is going to be helpful and definitely necessary to my career and my next move. And the truth is, I love writing. I really, really do. WTF got my full undivided attention for about 10 or 11 months. This book, not so much. This book, I hired a book coach, not a ghostwriter, but somebody to teach me.

How do you write a book? Because what this looked like was Danielle's just writing. Danielle's just writing. And the second chapter, WTF, Worth the Fear, I think it's at least double, if not more, of the rest of chapters. I couldn't land that plane. And I talk about that. I just could not land it. And then it's just me going here and there and talking about what I wanted to. It's really a sharing of my soul. To me, that is just one big coaching session, long, intimate conversation, that book. That's what that book is.

The second book will be a little bit more, no, I don't even know that any of the adjectives that came to my mind actually do fit, but it's a very different book and it's actually an allegory. So it's a fictional book that incorporates my business framework under pivots. That's demanding another side of me that's a big stretch because I'm making up a story and you know that in the beginning and I'm putting characters in there.

And so, you know, that's not what WTF was. So I'm just growing and I'm just building that resiliency muscle and I'm not always loving it. But I think that we have to understand we're not here to love it. We're here to appreciate the growth. It's an opportunity. So again, choose your pain and then reframe it. Maybe it's not so uncomfortable after all. How much power am I going to give it?

Dr Kelly Culver (42:32.802)
point.

Danielle Sprouls (42:34.968)
Take your power back. That's always there for us. We just sometimes forget it because we get caught up in, again, the uncertainty. Uncertainty doesn't need to own us. It just doesn't.

Dr Kelly Culver (42:53.292)
It's very powerful. said, I like the phrase, you know, you don't have to love it. We have to live it. And we have to have the courage to live it. So, you know, the piece of advice for you writing your book, you can't predict what it's going to look like. So you've got to be OK with where you got to if you got to be in the flow, just stay in the flow and it'll all come out the way it should.

Danielle Sprouls (42:59.276)
Yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (43:05.134)
Mm.

Danielle Sprouls (43:11.79)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. always say, yeah, I always say that curiosity is a superpower. So when things don't look the way I anticipated, I'm like, Danielle, stay curious. Let's be curious. Okay. You know? Yeah. And then it's only good if you're teachable. I'm like, stay teachable. You know.

Jenn Quader (43:15.233)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:26.423)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (43:29.025)
That's a master skill.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:30.719)
Yeah, that's right.

Danielle Sprouls (43:40.845)
That's the truth. You know, so the whole WTF, it's like, be curious about what your next opportunity is. It's not looking the way you and you know, and sometimes it is downright painful, but there's so much gifts and pain. There really is, because at the very least, it stops us. And the power of the pause is huge. In our pause, we get to if we work it well, to reframe or readjust so that when we're

you know, doing our resilience move, our flourishing forward, our moving forward. We're doing it with growth in mind, with change that serves us. We can make everything better even when it doesn't initially look so. Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (44:20.376)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (44:29.599)
Amen, moving through the chaos. I'm excited about book number two, very excited. So keep us posted on that. Danielle, we'll have to have you back for sure. And I think, again, you just sprout with wisdom. wanna say before we, next up is our rapid fire questions. But before we do, I do wanna say, I agree with you. think you spoke about WTF, of course, from the writer's perspective, as you are, you're the writer. And I agree that it is a deep opening of your soul, but I equally wanna say that it is so actionable.

Danielle Sprouls (44:33.656)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Dr Kelly Culver (44:44.642)
Hehehe.

Danielle Sprouls (44:44.79)
Okay.

Dr Kelly Culver (44:47.982)
you

Jenn Quader (44:59.517)
It is so broken down into bites. has bullet points. It has action steps. So it's something that you can read and both enjoy, but also really pull things out of. And I think when it comes to this overall topic of resilience, again, I like to bring this up almost every episode. We talk a lot about community and communal resilience and how we help each other. You brought it up, Danielle, in light of your current, what's happening with your husband. But I think...

Danielle Sprouls (45:01.772)
It is, yeah.

Danielle Sprouls (45:18.06)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (45:24.415)
the ability to share that, the ability to come on today's podcast and share your story and talk, this is where the magic is. So thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm gonna turn it over to Dr. Kelly, he's gonna launch into rapid fire questions, but it's just so much good wisdom and I hope that our listeners will go take a look at WTF.

Danielle Sprouls (45:41.656)
Thank you. Go ahead, fire away, let's go.

Dr Kelly Culver (45:42.828)
Are you ready, Danielle? Okay, what's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?

Danielle Sprouls (45:51.629)
You know what's coming to mind, and because I just finished it recently, The Handmaid's Tale with Elizabeth Moss. I will tell you, Elizabeth Moss, she personified what it was to be resilience. And it's, what a dark series, honestly. It's emotionally provocative. I don't know that it's for everyone.

Dr Kelly Culver (45:58.538)
my god. Yeah.

Jenn Quader (46:01.215)
Yes!

Danielle Sprouls (46:15.116)
but I started watching that after it had already, maybe there was three or four seasons. I wasn't on the early bus for that show. But once somebody mentioned it, and I wasn't even in love with the name, I'm like, that doesn't sound so good. Wow, wow, W-O-W. I mean, so I would tell you that that show and the suffering and the coming back, the resilience that is exhibited in that show, pretty much from all the characters, but the Handmaids in particular, yeah.

So there's a vote for go watch the Handmaid's Tale, but buckle up and also draw your shades because you can't see squat on this show. It is done in such a dark way that it is real. There are jokes made about how hard it is to see that screen. So go check it out. You'll see what we're saying. But yeah, the Handmaid's Tale.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:03.454)
It was, it's written by Margaret Atwood, Canadian author. It was required reading when I was in university. Damn near killed me to get through it. whoa.

Danielle Sprouls (47:11.116)
Wow, you know, I didn't, never read it. When I started watching it, my adult son told me, goes, I read the book. I'm like, there's a book? mean, how misinformed am I? I was like about the movie. Yeah.

Jenn Quader (47:11.166)
Woohoo!

Dr Kelly Culver (47:17.518)
yeah, there's a book that's like man. Yeah Okay, okay, so let's go from movies and TV shows. Let's get some like is there an uplifting song maybe? Makes you feel resilient

Danielle Sprouls (47:33.999)
The prayer of St. Francis when it's sung. That's what I'll tell you. My mom always sang that to us when we were younger. And you know, when it begins, know, make me a channel of thy peace, you know, where there is and then fill in the blank where there's love, you know, and it you know, that really is about resilience in as much as you're not putting yourself first.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:40.526)
me.

Danielle Sprouls (48:01.196)
Right? You're thinking, where can I be of service? Where can I give in order to get what it is that I seek? And at the essence of that is really prayer and love and faith and trust and all the things that move the needle in my life. So that's my answer. Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:18.258)
safe. It's a safe place for you. Yeah, yep.

Danielle Sprouls (48:22.208)
Yes, exactly, Dr. Kelly. So it stops me in my tracks whenever I hear it. It brings me back and it brings me forward at the same time.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:28.494)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:33.314)
That's very powerful. Yes. What's the last thing that made you laugh? Like really laugh out loud.

Danielle Sprouls (48:41.042)
So a few days ago, we're in the hospital unexpectedly, right? And I got pulled out of my conference. I was literally in a panel. I wasn't on the panel. I was in this panel session and I get the 911 from my husband. The paramedics are here. You gotta come to the pool. And so I go out and we get wheeled away. Well, he gets wheeled away in an ambulance. He's on the stretcher. And I said, WTF, right? Because we're very human. Like we're just like, we're so funny about everything. And I go WTF, you know, I go, why the fall?

Right? And he turns to me and I had my book in hand. goes, WTF, wrecked the femur. And I died. I was like, it didn't even matter how much pain he had. That's what he said. And I'm just like, okay, you've just confirmed why you're my man yet again. I mean, I could not believe and I'm like, I've never even used in any of my WTFs the word wrecked. I'm like, now we've got a whole nother W word. Right? But when he said wrecked the femur, I'm like, are you serious?

Dr Kelly Culver (49:29.806)
You

Danielle Sprouls (49:39.595)
No, okay, see, made you guys laugh. It was so unexpected. I was trying to lighten the moment for him and he slayed it. He just slayed it. No, totally. No, because it's, you know what? It's become a language in our home and it's endless. And even with my friends, you can put WTF to anything and once you start, it becomes a playful response.

Jenn Quader (49:43.179)
great.

Dr Kelly Culver (49:50.05)
That's pre-morphing, Well done, him. Well done, him.

Jenn Quader (49:51.937)
Yeah, that's in the heat of the pain.

Danielle Sprouls (50:08.878)
And it becomes a game. And you know what life is a bit of a game, is it not? It just is. And so you gotta embrace it.

Dr Kelly Culver (50:17.102)
What's a question that you would like to leave for future guests?

Danielle Sprouls (50:21.094)
I would like to leave the question, what's the boldest pivot you've made that others still don't understand?

Dr Kelly Culver (50:29.39)
I love that. can answer it, but I'm not going to.

Danielle Sprouls (50:31.79)
I

Jenn Quader (50:32.641)
Same, same. I'm like, I have so many answers. Great question, Danielle. Great question. All right. I now have a question for you from a past guest on Resilience with the Podcast. Are you ready? Okay. I think you're ready. I mean, this is actually really great based on some of our conversation today. So the question is, what have you done to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation in order to get comfortable there?

Dr Kelly Culver (50:35.874)
Hmm?

Danielle Sprouls (50:36.142)
OK, so you got that dad? OK.

Danielle Sprouls (50:42.282)
Mm-hmm. Okay, I think I'm ready, yes. We'll see.

Danielle Sprouls (50:50.967)
Okay.

Danielle Sprouls (51:00.814)
What have I done? mean like facts? mean, moving into entrepreneurship, I don't think there's more of a resilience gym than that, to be honest with you. But you know what I learned in that to start my own company and like, okay, let's be clear too, right? I'm not 20 years old. I was 59, I'm now 61. When I started my LLC, that would be considered to be very, very bold, uncomfortable for sure.

Jenn Quader (51:09.665)
True.

Dr Kelly Culver (51:10.84)
No.

Danielle Sprouls (51:27.17)
But what I realize is that resilience doesn't really, it's not built in the boardrooms, right? Where everybody looks so like, arrived and together. It's like built at the kitchen table. It's in the struggle. It's in the beginnings of anything that is new. So when I say kitchen table, that just kind of gives me a vision of anybody starting for the first time. And I love coaching people who are up here.

in other areas of their life, mostly their career. And then they want to pivot, not to change, but maybe to do something on the side that they enjoy. And all of a sudden they have to be comfortable with being down here. Right. And I have lived that discomfort. I continue to, but not as much as it was two years ago. So for me to coach people on that, I love that. I'm like, join us beyond the journey. And this is what it looks like as you get to the other side. Gives me great joy. It really does. And satisfaction.

Jenn Quader (52:23.147)
I love it. Work toward fulfillment. Well, and you want to share the journey in a beautiful way. And I think, again, your book ends that way. I'll say this. Thank you for bringing your journey to our journey. I think we are all working on a mission to make sure that the world stays resilient and to make sure that we are having these conversations. And Danielle, you have absolutely brought us tremendous nuggets of wisdom. I wonder if you could please let our listeners know.

Danielle Sprouls (52:23.259)
WTF, work toward fulfillment. I just want to be fulfilled. I want to be fulfilled.

Danielle Sprouls (52:30.795)
I do.

Danielle Sprouls (52:37.742)
Okay.

Jenn Quader (52:51.329)
Where can they follow you? Where can they find you? Give us a little bit of information.

Danielle Sprouls (52:55.82)
I'm on a lot of platforms, but probably, you if you go to unscriptedpivots.com, you can see all of the links, you know, because yes, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on X, AKA Twitter, as the WTF ladies. If you, you know, my name is somewhat unique. If you type in Danielle Sprouls, you're gonna get me. And if you type in the WTF lady, you're gonna get me. So it's fairly easy to find because that is, that's my nickname in the industry. I mean, that's what I go by, the WTF lady.

And that took a moment. We can have a whole nother conversation at another time about that. those two things, so unscriptedpivots.com, because I'm also on Instagram a little bit. I'm on Substack, I'm on TikTok. I mean, it's hilarious. I'm on a whole lot of platforms just putting it out there in big and small ways. But thank you for asking.

Jenn Quader (53:44.993)
Beautiful. Well, it's a beautiful inspiration. Guys, look her up, follow her, find her. She sends great newsletters and things. then just, I said and things, great newsletters. She sends great inspiration, great social media. So follow her. And then in addition, I would always like to ask you guys, if resilience is something you're committed to, something you're looking for in your life, please subscribe to Resiliency, the podcast, wherever you're listening today or on YouTube.

Dr Kelly Culver (53:48.814)
you

Jenn Quader (54:07.903)
we really do exist to help you to embrace change, to overcome challenges, and to redefine resilience. You can find me, Jen Quater, online, J-E-N-N-Q-U-A-D-E-R on all the socials, or my company, The Smart Agency. And then our brilliant, wonderful, amazing co-host, Dr. Kelly Culver. You can find her at theculvergroup.ca, that is .ca, because like Margaret Atwood, was that her name? Like Margaret Atwood, she is...

Dr Kelly Culver (54:32.674)
Mm-hmm

Jenn Quader (54:34.089)
A brilliant Canadian. In addition, you can find Dr. Kelly Culver on Instagram and LinkedIn. And lastly, I just, again, thank you all for listening. Guys, we love resilience. It doesn't feel good all the time, but it is worth it as we all walk toward fulfillment. And thank you to the WTF lady and thank you to all of our listeners. Have a resilient rest of your week.

Danielle Sprouls (54:51.0)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Sprouls (54:57.699)
Thank you.