Redefining Resilience | Lessons from Media Mogul & Innovator Mike Anderson
Welcome to Resiliency the podcast, the place for stories, strategies, and inspiration on how to embrace change, overcome challenges, and redefine resilience in today's ever evolving world. If you are interested in resiliency, we invite you to like or subscribe to our YouTube channel or wherever you may be finding us today. I am your cohost, Jen Quater. I am a professional strategic communicator and CEO of a company called The Smart Agency, and I am joined by my wonderful, amazing cohost, doctor Kelly Culver. And today, I have the great honor of welcoming an amazing guest.
Jenn Quader:Guys, I honestly, like, buckle up. This is a really exciting episode because today's guest has been described as part entrepreneur, part corporate animal. That is a a five star review if I've ever heard one, and I'm excited to dive in. He has a number of broad ranging and really world impacting careers. First, he's he was the head of four national newspapers, including News of the World and News UK.
Jenn Quader:Then he started one of the very first app companies, Chelsea Apps Factory. And now through his company called Dot, he offers consultancy and mentoring for businesses and individuals who want to adapt, learn, and grow, which sounds a lot like our resilience trinity that, doctor Culver speaks about a lot. So with without any further ado, please welcome this global trendsetter and pacemaker and amazing individual, mister Mike Anderson. Welcome.
Mike Anderson:Well, thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me to come and talk to you today. Really looking forward to our conversation.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Mike, we're super excited to have you, and, and thanks for agreeing to be a guest on our podcast. Now we are we are a global podcast. We are listened to in over five continents. So where are you today?
Mike Anderson:So I'm calling you from my international headquarters, aka my home office, here in Cobham, Surrey in England.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And I happen to be based in London, England at the moment.
Jenn Quader:I I I'm just below LA in Mission Viejo. And I have to point out, though, Mike, did you say you're in Surrey? Okay. I'm the only reason I know that is because one of my very favorite movies in the world is called The Holiday, and she talks about how Cary Grant was from Surrey. Oh, yeah.
Jenn Quader:So I must point out
Mike Anderson:I am the father of three daughters and have rinsed that movie so many times.
Jenn Quader:Me.
Mike Anderson:And they filmed it down the road down the road from here. They filmed it in a place called Shear. And, every time somebody mentions Shear, they go, oh, the holiday holiday.
Jenn Quader:Really before we got onto into the recording, I said I'm gonna have to come visit you. Now I'm really gonna have to come visit you. I would love to see the set of the holiday. So amazing. You you you live in a global place.
Mike Anderson:It is a beautiful little place.
Jenn Quader:I wanna I wanna ask this question because to me, I'm someone who you know, I I have a my undergrad is in journalism, and then I I work in the PR world. You worked you know, you had four global newsrooms you were running. So, and you brought in the question of honesty.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So I
Jenn Quader:wanna ask the question about resilience and the news and about finding truth through the news and and how and, again, I'm asking this in a really big broad stroke way. I'm not asking you to get specific. But just in a broad stroke way, as someone who's who's run this business and now sees others, How are we doing on honesty in the news, and how have you seen the news be resilient? What what do you see as true resilience in the news business right now?
Mike Anderson:Well, the first thing is that people outside of those organizations always assume that we are conspiracy theorists and running around sharing false information. In fact, there is more false information because things are not as regulated as they were, things are not as structured as they were, things are not as fact checked as they were, Right? So it was and I should be clear here, I was not a journalist. I was effectively the publisher. I realized I couldn't be a journalist when, you know, the source of say in, tabloid publishing, okay, people would literally be stood round the block wanting to tell you who they slept with at the weekend on a Monday morning.
Mike Anderson:Right? Now if that's, you know okay. We paid for those stories. Okay. We paid for those stories.
Mike Anderson:But that that that was, you know, what what what you do realize in in in that world, if you like, is that people will sell their granny to tell you something or to self promote themselves or do whatever, right, which isn't a particularly great human thing to see. Right? But that that is true. The second thing is there were loads of checks and balances around what was factually correct and, you know, every effort was made to to ensure that that's the case. That's the truth of it.
Mike Anderson:That is the truth of it. It wasn't, oh, we're struggling for a story. Somebody make something up. Right? There were fact checks.
Mike Anderson:There there are fact checks on on on the established broadcasters. They're fully aware of all the legal implications of misrepresentation and so on and so forth. And my job a lot of the time is to work out whether we would or wouldn't get shut down on something that was a real story. You know? So if you you and and what people tend to forget and it's an interesting one.
Mike Anderson:Have you seen the movie Spotlight?
Jenn Quader:I haven't.
Mike Anderson:So Spotlight is an expose by an investigative journalistic team. I think it was in Chicago or Boston, it was in Boston, and they exposed, the priests who were being pedophiles and and then being protected by the church. Okay? If a publisher had not funded that investigation, that story would have never come out. These people would still be operating.
Mike Anderson:Right? And people forget about that stuff. Okay? The the reason that nurses get you know, were getting better paid is not because the government is because the media turned on them and said these people need to be properly looked after. Right?
Mike Anderson:The reason there are more police, the reason there are more all these kind of things, a lot of them are born out of the media's, you know, to be that kind of for state thing about, you know. So there's a lot of good stuff that happens because it's part of a democratic structure. Right? And, the general purpose of people is to do good. It is to do good.
Mike Anderson:Right? And and it's not to or let's let's let's, you know, circulate, you know, non factually correct false information. That's not how these organizations work or the structure that they were in. You know? Did things happen?
Mike Anderson:Were mistakes made? Oh, definitely. Right. Did people, you know, lose the plot in terms of their own ambition, perhaps, you know, to to to maybe, you know, present their story in a way that said they've done all the necessary checks and balances and so on and so forth. Sure.
Mike Anderson:Right? But the but the the overriding culture was wasn't one of, let's make it all up, guys. Right? Because it doesn't it doesn't matter. You know?
Mike Anderson:And, there was a great tagline in the News of the World, which was, they used it in the in the the the the two examples I see in the news about positive things. One was, they had this tagline, which was all human life lives here. Right? And that was everybody from the successful to the, you know, the vicar. I've got a thing.
Mike Anderson:I'm not having a go at religious people here. I've I've noticed I have, like, two references to religious things and stuff. Okay? But you know what I mean. The kiss me quick story, okay, to the thing.
Mike Anderson:Alright? So there's that there's that bit. The other thing actually, which is true of newspapers in the olden days, was that they they they, they used to run a thing called the I think it was called the Henderson Bureau. And it basically was the fact checker of the day where people would write to the papers and say, is this true about this? Is this true about that?
Mike Anderson:Can I get advice for this? Can I get advice for that? Which of course they can now get from Google. But they but that that's what the the the relationship those publications had in those days before all those things. So they it it it it it gets dramatized as something else, but it it it's not.
Mike Anderson:It's not that. It's that the main purpose is to do good. And I worry actually with the demise of some of those brands and their power and their influence. I'm not sure it's necessarily a good thing because who's policing the the the misinformation? Right?
Mike Anderson:And there's a lot of it around, and, I I don't think it's a better solution than the one we had. You know? And then what how do those people you know, people own these publications for sure for the power and influence. Right? For their own political beliefs and sure.
Mike Anderson:There's all of those kind of things. There's also a lot of good, as I say, like in the investigative journalistic team, which would take somebody two years to uncover, investigate, so on and so forth. All that got financed, you know, to to ensure that the wrongs were righted, you know, and there are countless examples of that in in in in Spotlight the movie was pretty real actually in terms of how how that came around and, you know, how they managed to challenge the system, get the information exposed, and so on and so forth.
Jenn Quader:I think you bring up a huge point about resiliency in in the role of media, because I think that you're right. There is a deterioration of of belief in the media because there is this belief of, kind of what you just said that people are making things up to get to an end. And I think politics plays a lot within that. But, I'm reminded too you you brought up the movie spotlight, but I'm reminded, and I can't think of his name right now, but the very horrible man who, was the big thing with underage assault in Palm Beach. That was all started by Palm Beach Post journalists.
Jenn Quader:Was his name Jer I can't remember his name. The horrible man.
Mike Anderson:Yeah.
Jenn Quader:Thank you, Jeffrey Epstein. Yes. Yeah. That that was all started by, like, the local paper. So I I think you bring up a really important point.
Jenn Quader:Again, for from from a a a standpoint of global listeners who are maybe asking themselves, like, what news what should I listen to? What's real? You know? How can I how can I decipher between these organizations that are good, that are trying to tell these stories and and and, as you said, are sometimes the the pivotal key that makes things happen? It's why nurses are getting raises.
Jenn Quader:So I think there is a power of the media story that's not being told in the mainstream media. What would you say to someone who who said to you, like, hey. I I don't know what to I don't know what to trust. Where where do I go? How do I find this resilience in the news today?
Mike Anderson:Yeah. Well, that this is the thing. I don't know where, I I actually have done some work with a business called the News Movement who are, who are, was founded by a guy called Will Lewis. Will Lewis is a previous editor of The Daily Telegraph. He's currently editor of The Washington Post, working with, Jeff Bezos.
Mike Anderson:He was editor of the Wall Street Journal. And he he was on or is on a mission to see how he can get Gen Zs engaged in the news. Right? And I'll take that off to to Will and his ability to fundraise because through his network, he he just went to billionaires and say, are you irritated by the fact that your kid is constantly on their phone and not paying attention to anything you say? Yes.
Mike Anderson:I am. Okay. Do you think that there's any understanding of what's going on in the world? I yes. I agree.
Mike Anderson:I said, okay. Give me $15,000,000. I'm gonna try and solve this problem. And they wrote checks out. Right?
Mike Anderson:And I it was the best picture I'd ever seen. I thought this is brilliant. But it was a real problem. But but here's the issue, well, thinking, how do I get the this generation engaged in the news? And what they're gonna believe in?
Mike Anderson:What's the trust? So he's trying to take news items that's worth going to see the news movement. It it it it it does use as an Instagram and TikTok style of presentation of the news. Okay? The the one thing as well I would say of news organizations today, they they do pivot all the time.
Mike Anderson:They do follow trends. They do embrace technology. They do, yes they got the Internet out of it. The New York Times is a very successful subscription business, The Times is a successful subscription business. It's difficult with advertising, but let's not go down that rabbit hole.
Mike Anderson:But the but the thing is that they pivot and find opportunities. But here's the funny thing. Right? So we take the news movement as an example. They set up a they do a deal with the press association, they have a studio in London, a studio in New York, they hire a bunch of, Gen Z's and they go out and they create and they gather the news and story and present it in that style.
Mike Anderson:And they've had some success in gathering an audience for that. Right? And people getting into it, and then you see lots of copies of it aping that kind of stuff. But the number one thing I think on YouTube was some guy who was just reading the news, right, from all sources, right, who then has a 50,000,000 audience. Right?
Mike Anderson:So you go, okay. Well, if you're the high ground of let's make sure people can at least consume the news and all the thinking about style and process and what channels and how you use them. And then you go into a random person kicks off a YouTube channel, works the system well, gets, you know and suddenly is the global contact point for that generation. And that what they're doing, they're just basically reading the news. That's all they're doing, watching the news really.
Mike Anderson:And you go, oh my god. Right?
Jenn Quader:Look. You couldn't have better explained the the, intersection, but of all your worlds, Mike, the intersection of news and apps and entrepreneurship is exactly what you just explained because yeah. Like, they're having to change boy, I I don't envy the news organizations because they they're having to pivot and and imagine what that next app might look like. Like, they can't even create for today's apps. They have to really be thinking ahead what will the next TikTok be.
Jenn Quader:Where will, like, where will that next, thing go? That that's my impression of how to survive.
Mike Anderson:But but well, you're sure. And the the the if you but but who's doing the fact checking? Who's doing the investigation? Who's doing the right. That's the that's the, the the journalists today.
Mike Anderson:You know, the the that that's the process that, thankfully, journalistic schools and everything else. They know it's about check, check, check. Right? So but if and obviously the the the the newsreader who's become the most popular person, but he doesn't he doesn't write the story, create the do the the necessary, you know, journalistic work. Right?
Mike Anderson:And I don't know. I mean, I I I I have a belief based on nothing other than instinct, and I actually wanna talk about instinct in a minute. Okay? That at some point, we will welcome being edited. Right?
Mike Anderson:Because one of the things that was good about newspapers say, long gone and nobody buys them these days to any great extent than a much older generation, but what was good is you knew your way around a newspaper, it was familiar, you knew where the news, international news, the headlines, the the puzzles, the sport, and there was an order to it. Okay? And it was a it actually one thing I'd say, go and buy a newspaper and have a reading experience with it. It's quite nice. I've forgotten what that feels like.
Mike Anderson:Right? So, anyway, I think people would enjoy an edited package of things because that's just it's consumable. You know? Digitally, you don't know quite where you are, you know, whether you're in a lifestyle section, a a a news section, a a sports section, whatever. You know?
Mike Anderson:So that's quite interesting. And I do think there's there's a somebody wants an edited version. I quite like, Apple's news thing because that takes from various sources and that that that's certainly part of the answer. The other thing is this. And there's a collision of two worlds.
Mike Anderson:Okay? The newspaper business in the eighties, nineties, noughties, it was an instinct driven business. Right? You would never get an editor to look at any piece of research. You do research and you would try and present it and they would say to you, listen.
Mike Anderson:I understand my readers. I know what they want. Don't bring don't bring your mumbo jumbo in here. Okay? There was a there was a resistance to it like you wouldn't believe.
Mike Anderson:Okay? And, you know, I used to go and present the numbers that I thought we were going to achieve as a business and say the circulation that we were gonna achieve. And how we put those numbers together was, you know, practically the back of a cigarette packet based on instinct and experienced people who knew. Okay. And the accuracy by which we predicted the outcomes was pretty good actually.
Mike Anderson:Right? We knew if we moved the price to here, if we did this, we made these available, we increased availability. We knew the levers, and we could pretty accurately predict what the outcome was gonna be. Right? And it's hugely an instinct driven business.
Mike Anderson:When I got into digital and apps and everything I came across a thing called data driven decisioning, right at the start of that. Right? And actually, what I was doing was working with gaming and gambling companies, right, who were early adopters of technology. You know what? Technology is always adopted by two particular industries.
Mike Anderson:Okay. And and they I I I came into this world of a science fest of data driven decisioning. And what I concluded was that that was really impressive and I wish I had been able to bring more of that into my old world of instinct, right, and we would have maybe done some smarter things than just pure instinct. And now you're in a world where data drives everything. And what I think is missing is instinct.
Mike Anderson:Right? Because you need to find the blend of instinct and data driven. And if you can do that, that's a magic. Right? And I've seen both of those worlds operate, right, where you overanalyze to death, literally, where you talk yourself out of doing anything innovative or new or different, because you send it down to a working group who will crunch it to death and then tell you 57 reasons why that will never work, right.
Mike Anderson:And I'm not sure that's always the answer either. I think that somebody needs to be brave, somebody needs to make a decision, somebody needs to follow their instincts, right, because that's how good things get done. But you don't let one outweigh the other. I think it there's a magic blend of instinct and and data driven.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I see the the the piece on instinct. I'm so glad that you brought that up. We talk a bit about instinct, in in other with other people that we've had on, on resiliency, the podcast instinct. It's like it's your it's your North Star, and people aren't listening to that North Star that is their instinct. And when they're faced with disruption, chaos, uncertainty, and all of the you know, and particularly all the uncertainty we've had globally in the last four or five years, professionally and personally, people freeze, and they stop listening to that inner voice of their instinct and their North Star.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And they want that data in front of them because they lack that confidence, that bravery, that, you know, put on your pants of steel today and take a decision and act. I see it around me all the time.
Mike Anderson:Well
Jenn Quader:and I I also think you said something about you kinda said something about magic. Right? Like, you talked about how the instinct itself is what makes that act, and and good things come from following that. And, it's just interesting you talk about this because I I run a a a PR marketing business, and we do have some clients that still come and say, I want to know that every story you place, like, who calls me off that story? And that's that's not the best client for us.
Jenn Quader:And I'll tell them that that because the amount of data you'd have to somehow have access to in a magical world to be able to prove that, a, you won't have that level of access, but, b, by the time you have that level of access, you've you've micro focused. And so what I'm trying to say is it's the energy around getting the story, and we call that felt impact. And so I'm talking about, you know, the the end result of it, which is, you know, how the company might grow with it. But when you are the the leader who has to make the decision, I really like your idea that there has to be a blend. Because sometimes, depending upon the size of my company, even though the world is filled with all these data decisions I could make, do I really have all the best data?
Jenn Quader:Isn't some of it locked away where I can't actually get to it? So I think people to your point, doctor Culver, they they're freezing. And I guess I wonder, Mike, are you seeing that? Are you seeing people who are kinda boggled by data who are freezing and not at all even able to kind of connect with their own instinct anymore? Is that happening?
Mike Anderson:Well, I'm gonna answer that in a am I seeing that? I that is a broader question about how people just kinda interreact. Right? And the the the the the so the example I'll use is that I, we're launching we launched a couple of new projects. I go into a room of marketing and sales people and they hoop and holler before I've even said what we're doing.
Mike Anderson:Okay. And it's a really energizing environment. Okay. I go to a bunch of developers and I tell them this exciting news and the room is a deadly silence. And people are staring at their shoes and most of them think I don't really give a shit.
Mike Anderson:Right? And it's extraordinary. Right? Now I got quite good at hiring developers. It's always the person that never looked me in the eye and stared at their shoes and gave me the limpest handshake.
Mike Anderson:I I thought, we're hiring this guy. He's brilliant. Right? Love it. Okay.
Jenn Quader:Okay. Okay. Career advice. I dig it.
Mike Anderson:But the but the but the the the the world needs the I I've got a a I I operate in both as well. So I'm I'm, by nature, generally, an enthusiast at most things I see. Most startups that come to me develop show me their ideas, living else. I'm on the ceiling with happiness and joy about their idea, their creativity, their hope, their promise, and everything else. Okay?
Mike Anderson:I know that's a that's a strength and a weakness. So what I then do is I send my decks and information to my people who are not that, who who who I would say suck their teeth at most things. Right? And I know as I'm sending them, you know, their deck, I'm going, I know that Willie's gonna look at this and go, what rubbish is this he's up to now? What a load of rubbish.
Mike Anderson:This idea of stupid damn thing. That'll never work. So on and so forth. Right? But they're my counterbalance.
Mike Anderson:Okay? And I and I respect them for being that way. Right? And I want them to be that way. I don't want them to be, you know, the happy chappy.
Mike Anderson:Let's do you know? There used to be old thing in sales about beware of mister happy. You know? And, but you you counter that. So you respect it.
Mike Anderson:You go to it. You use it for the value it can bring, the reasoning, and you accept that it may come back with a as much as I accept that I may be over inflating the enthusiasm, I'll I'll try and build this as an instinct thing. I'll try and build in a factor for the doer Scots person. Let's call them that or or whatever, the doer person who's on the other end of that decision and say, okay. I'll allow a 10% of doer ness in there, right, to then decide whether I want to progress.
Mike Anderson:And sometimes, you know, their their arguments are very compelling and fair enough, and not every idea works. But you so I suppose it's am I seeing anything in particular? Well, you just learn to play to the personality types and respect them. I think the thing that I would say as an as an older person, I've learned to respect that more than I did as an as a top headed young, go getting, quite arrogant person, really, if I reflect. Right?
Mike Anderson:I I thought, you know, I thought I don't know what I thought. But anyway, I I what I like about the older me is that I am more respectful of people, different styles, different I see, you know, the the limp handshakers are are actually very useful people and the world needs people like that. And, you know, you you learn to get the best out of people like that and think why, you know, not everybody's happy clappy. You know? And, so I suppose that's what you learn, isn't it?
Mike Anderson:Different types, different folks, but everybody's got something to contribute and and and and without them, you you know, I see people that you recognize skills in people that you know you don't have.
Jenn Quader:Yes.
Mike Anderson:You know? And you go, god, I'm not like that. And I went I'm I'm I'm just not that sort of person. But, you know, they are very good at doing that thing. And if you wanna do that thing, you need somebody like that to do it.
Mike Anderson:And thank God I found that person who who is the one with
Jenn Quader:self self awareness and wherewithal and and humbleness to be able to say, I I need that. You know? Like, I I I can't I can't do all of that. You know? And I need to surround myself with that.
Jenn Quader:I wanna ask you based on that perception, though, of these very different people. You're mister happy in the happy in the marketing room and you're guy with a limp handshake, the developer, and yet all of them are are working toward this goal. When you are doing consultancy and mentorship, what are the strategies that you might teach them, and and would it be the same to help them be resilient? You know, when we're bringing this back toward resilience and and having them keep moving, keep being brave, trust instinct, how do you help what what strategies do you teach to these entrepreneurs knowing that they're very different personalities?
Mike Anderson:Yeah. Okay. So a a a a current thinking, five of the week on that thing, right, is this. There so if you're in a, if you're encouraging, free spirited entrepreneurial innovation, creativity, You don't want frameworks. Right?
Mike Anderson:Because frameworks make people who are like that feel like they're inhibited. Okay? But what you can do is you personally and I do, I do have frameworks mentally in my head. I do have, you know, things I go, okay, let's let's talk about, you know, finding the truth. Let's talk about what the real deal is.
Mike Anderson:Let's talk about what the nice things that we have. But I don't present them in frameworks. Okay? If I'm dealing with the other type, then I do bring frameworks into the room because they need it for comfort. Right?
Mike Anderson:They need to see that structure. They need to see that it's not I'm not asking them to be anything other than themselves. Right? And so I'll use it in a more structured way with that type of person to say, okay. We've got a five step process.
Mike Anderson:I'm gonna walk you through these things. We're gonna spend some time doing that, you know, and we are going to frame the conversations in a more solid kind of way, because they need that in order to respond. And so in fact when I sort of talk about mentoring to the entrepreneurial spirit, I say look I've got frameworks and they are used appropriately, you know, because it's funny, okay? The person who might buy you as a mentor say in a corporate, I've got to judge whether they are a pre thinker or a structure, So I can't I've gotta write a document that plays to that. Okay?
Mike Anderson:I've gotta play to that. Don't worry. This is a, you know because you get people who have loved all this stuff and you get people who don't like it, you know, and they wanna buy in a very ordered structure. So so there's I suppose one of the things you talk to a lot of businesses about is how do I make myself easy to buy And therefore, recognizing the your your audience, the people that you're serving, and what they need from you, you know, and play to those things. I think it's been a and it's interesting when you're looking to help people and there's, obviously, a purpose and thing about doing that.
Mike Anderson:But you gotta I find a lot of mentors and coaches are quite self reflecting. You know? Oh, I'm this and that. I used to be you know, I'm a mentor because I used to have a job for forty years. We've all had jobs for forty years.
Mike Anderson:You know, that what what is it you bring to the table? What is it you're your superpower? What is the thing you you you you think you genuinely do? You know? And and they don't often think about the customer, if you like, or the client.
Mike Anderson:You know? Customer, if you like, or the client, you know. So it's always quite important to get that that perspective of so you play to as I've said, you know, some are structured, some are less. So your instincts will tell you where you think you are, and you'd I'd blend that conversation to please be reassured as a structured program, there's a 12 steps. Right?
Mike Anderson:Or listen, I can bring them along, but we don't have to use them.
Jenn Quader:Alright. I'll I had a question about the framework because you were talking about I'm I I am learning a lot from this because I'm someone who, again, as I was I'm growing up, you know, I I acquired a a company in 2018, and I immediately started trying to set up training programs. And I started to find out, oh, not everyone responds to training the same way. So it's similar to what you're saying, which is that certain certain types.
Mike Anderson:You
Jenn Quader:know? But I wanna ask this, Mike. You mentioned you have three daughters. And I wanna ask, when you're you're helping business people become resilient, do you use the same tools to help your kids become resilient, or is there any difference in how you approach that?
Mike Anderson:My girls have got innate strengths, but I don't think I'm not sure I taught them, those things. I certainly didn't consciously run them through the flip charts, right, and say, hey, guys. You know, this is what you do. I I I don't know where they got from their mother or I or something. They've all got a good work ethic.
Mike Anderson:Don't know why they have. Right? It it's great. I don't I haven't had to parent about that. I think they've parented each other.
Mike Anderson:Now, obviously, you know, I I lost my wife when they were all quite young, and they they, they've amazed me in terms of how you know and, obviously, this is a thing about they're more resilient than you give them credit for. Okay? In that scenario, just to sort of say that I couldn't be the mom, but I knew how to be a dad. Right? And the the thing that I found quite interesting at the school gate was I I couldn't fuss because there was too much going on, right, between the balance.
Mike Anderson:And, actually, that was not a sort of, oh, I'm not gonna fuss about them too much, and they'll work their selves out. But my dad's saying get on with it. You know? But they they they were amazingly resilient amazingly resilient. I was more anxious and, upset than they were upset, but they I I anxious about them sort of coping and so on and so forth.
Mike Anderson:But they they they were extraordinarily resilient. And and I think sometimes we fuss around them too much and don't allow them to express any kind of resilience because we want to disenable them by taking care of everything for them. Do you know what I mean? And and I I think that, you know, you you do need to let people kind of, you know, walk into a few scenarios and and and kind of get themselves through it. You wanna be there for them, but you don't wanna do it for them.
Mike Anderson:You know? And I think that's the same in business with the you know, mentoring is definitely very different to coaching in the sense that mentoring is quite directional or at least my style is quite directional. Right? And I think that's that's my style. If you if you want that, you get that from me.
Mike Anderson:It's partly because I want to be accountable for what I'm saying, alright, and what I'm advising if you're asking me for that advice. And therefore, I wanna be quite directional about it. And I I make sure that I I mean, I I used to say, look, I'm not one of those mentors that pulls his chin and philosophizes. You know? It's not my style.
Mike Anderson:That might suit you. Doesn't get me. Right? And, I like to have real action points at the end of sessions that say, okay. In the last okay.
Mike Anderson:Here's the next the time we meet again, there are these responsibilities on me as your mentor and you as a mentee. So we we we make progress, you know, so that it's a worthwhile thing, you know. I I hate anyone to think, well, I'm not sure what I got out of that. You know?
Jenn Quader:Well, there's this level of self directedness that you're speaking about in both cases, both in the mentorship case and and in in the parent case, which, you know, my my heart goes out to your girls who I can see, you know, had something very huge in their lives to deal with. But then as you said, without making a fuss by stepping back and and perhaps you were directional there too, I I would suggest, you know, that perhaps you were able to to show them where to look, you know, and then and then you trusted them enough to step back. And the comment I was gonna make is, you know, again, earlier as as I was growing myself in the business world, I started to find and I do believe this was generational. There was this generation of people who, like, they'd come interview for a job, and then, like, their parent would call you and be like, hey. Why didn't my child get the job?
Jenn Quader:Or why did I have one where the the kid was let go and the and I'm like, what? What? You have to pay why is the so I I think it's really an interesting point to be made in, like, please let your kid be resilient on their own. If they don't get the job, let them find out why. Please don't, you know, go call and find out for them.
Mike Anderson:No. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't just in private sector.
Mike Anderson:That.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Saw that in government
Mike Anderson:all
Dr. Kelly Culver:around the world. Same thing. It's like helicopter parenting.
Jenn Quader:Well, and and the
Mike Anderson:Yeah. And that that what what I don't well, I think a a a lot of parents would hate to hear about that is that if you were analyzing that, you'd say, well, what you've just done is disabled your child.
Jenn Quader:Amen. You removed their resiliency. Right. Mhmm.
Mike Anderson:You know, and and that is that really what you wanted to do? Did you want them make so unable to cope with life and themselves that you've you've just left them swimming in this pool with you know, that that is just such a bad move. You know? But yeah. No.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. We all do it in our own way. I think the thing is that and I please don't think I'm I I don't profess to lots of mistakes with my children, and they would tell you them for sure. Right? And, but what I would say is they are who they are because of themselves.
Mike Anderson:And if I did anything is I let them be themselves as for without necessarily practicing on a mission for that, but because of life and challenges and jobs and trying to organize things and make life good, they they somehow got, you know, sort themselves out quite well. I'm blessed with that. And, but I don't I'm not I'm not here to say, look. Here's a great strategy for parenting. You know?
Mike Anderson:That's listen.
Jenn Quader:Very few people, I think, would would want to say they were the number one parent. And I would also say I'm not really wagging fingers just at parents either because I think you spoke to from a business standpoint, how if if you if you approach people in a way that doesn't allow them to be who they are, whether you're a parent or whether you're a boss or whether you're a mentor, you are in some ways restricting the ability for them to be resilient. And I think whether that is you as you talked about, knowing that this person needs an entrepreneurial push and this person needs a framework or whether it's knowing to step back, it sounds like there is a lot of benefit, to to being able to give people the space they need to find that resiliency. I heard a quote recently. I'm probably gonna say it wrong.
Jenn Quader:But they, they were saying, like, the best parents are the ones who, they don't make their child into anything. They just watch what they they they support what their child is there to become. And I think you could say the same of of of Yeah. Of employees. You know?
Jenn Quader:You could it's it's letting people letting people show their own superpower is, I guess, what I would think. What do you think of that, Mike and doctor Culver?
Mike Anderson:I I I I I I I think that's I think that's so true. And I'll tell you a a wee story if I may. I'm gonna bang my gums now. I I went on a study tour of best practice in America with a company who, I really rate. And they what they do is they take, executives.
Mike Anderson:This is when in a corporate world where they would pay for me to go on these best practice learning thing. And I spent a a week going around America's best practice businesses, And it was fantastic. Started in Boston, ended in LA, flew across the country in the course of the week, and went to Apple, went to Cisco, went to, you know, Southwest Airlines, all these business case studies. Right? And fired with enthusiasm, I came back with all these ideas that I'd seen.
Mike Anderson:One of which was the thing about recruit for attitude and more teach the skills. Okay? And I love this. I was totally sold on this concept. So I boldly march into the office and say, we're doing this, guys.
Mike Anderson:We're gonna recruit for attitude, and we're gonna teach the skills. Okay? We don't want all any fancy CVs or anything else. It's all aptitude. So we if we go about it, it's quite sensibly.
Mike Anderson:We set up a bunch of interview. We tell everybody we we advertise in Metro this was when we start Metro. No killer CV required. If you've got the right aptitude, we're like guys for you kind of thing. Right?
Mike Anderson:And what I and and this was in London, and we had people turning up on a Saturday in a church hall and going through a series of interviews to to be qualified. And what I ended up doing was hiring, most of the Antipodeans in London. Okay? The Aussie South African skiwis. Okay?
Mike Anderson:We're all full of gusto, and, yeah, no problem, man. We'll smash it. Okay? And then what happened was we get them in. Okay?
Mike Anderson:We get them in, and, I got a host of going, oh, mate. We got these great guys and girls and just dozen of fantastic fantastic attitude. I said, okay. Right. What about the teacher skills?
Mike Anderson:And we all looked at each other. Oh, we don't have that program. We don't have that program. So, basically, what we did is let them get going. Okay?
Mike Anderson:And I I ended up calling it the recruit for attitude and hope to Christ your doctrine skills. Okay? Oh, magic. Right. And do you know what?
Mike Anderson:They pretty well they did pretty well. They survived. Okay. Right? And then, of course, we got got about setting ourselves up.
Mike Anderson:Right? But that that's the sort of, you know, people can do it. People can do it if they've got that kind of, you know, And we didn't say, oh, are you resilient and can cope with no support or training in a job in a country you don't even come from? You know? You know?
Mike Anderson:And and you're gonna smash it here. You know? So, there's a I suppose what the moral of that story is that that you gotta think things through more. You know, that was the overenthusiastic without the that was the instinct without the data. Okay?
Mike Anderson:You know, that was the outcome. Outcome. Okay? So the data bit might have been a bit more like, okay. Let's think about this.
Mike Anderson:You know? What what are we gonna what program are we gonna put them through? You know? Yeah. So, yeah.
Mike Anderson:So that, perhaps, is your question, but you just reminded me of that.
Jenn Quader:It answers beautifully my word. Oh, I I I'm so enamored with really everything that you've talked about, Mike. I feel like we've learned a ton from you, and and I feel like there's please, we could talk for hours, it seems, because I think there's a lot more to learn. But I I I know that Kelly has some fun rapid fire questions that she wants to get you to. I I guess I wanna ask you, Mike, before Kelly goes into that.
Jenn Quader:Is there anything we haven't asked you about or anything you were hoping to be able to bring up as it relates to resiliency before we dive into our rapid fire questions?
Mike Anderson:No. I I look. I've really enjoyed the conversation, and the questions, and And and in preparing, you know, I I I I gave it some thought, and I I got to that place of this and innate thing that we've got that you guide people to find. And I think if I reflect on how I mentor people, I I listen, absorb, and then I sort of play back and sort of you you know, often I take people back to, okay, let's remember day one in this company. How did you feel?
Mike Anderson:What did you wanna achieve? Where was all that ambition? Where was all that excitement? Where was all that fizz, you know? And and you sometimes you you lose that on your journey.
Mike Anderson:So I think it's always a good thing to kinda go back to that day one kinda place, because you believe, you know. I once met somebody who was an extraordinary woman who ran an organization called the Delancey Street Foundation. I don't know if you know about it. In San Francisco. This is actually on that study tour, which was an an an incredible thing.
Mike Anderson:And she ran the the business was the biggest seller of Christmas trees on the West Coast. Right? They they built a community that they lived in. They ran restaurants. They ran a t shirt printing business.
Mike Anderson:They ran a badge making business and so on and so forth. And every employee was an ex con. Alright? And she'd come out of the working in the, working the government in in the prison service. She was a professor, a very interesting person.
Mike Anderson:But the thing that she told me that really landed was she had this thing about, because when you saw when you lived in where she when I went to the place that she'd built in San Francisco on the water with all these people who had built them, by the way. She had this thing about teach somebody a good thing, teach them the ability to teach somebody else. Right? That was a really interesting thing. They built the place themselves.
Mike Anderson:The ex cons had built the place ground up. Right? Even though she had the Bank of America financing and saying, we want a contractor. We want somebody who knows what they're doing. You know, she she did all this.
Mike Anderson:She lived in this cathedral, basically. But the the other thing which I loved and I I knew is that she had this thing about stay stupid. Alright? And I said, that's interesting. What do you mean?
Mike Anderson:She said, because if you stay stupid, you believe anything is possible. Right? And I quite like that. Right? So I think let's go back to this day stupid and believe I can get out of this.
Mike Anderson:I can I can solve this problem? I can be, you know and then in reflection, you wanna call it resilience.
Jenn Quader:I'm in love. Right. I won't stay stupid. I'm gonna tattoo.
Mike Anderson:Okay. But it's true. I I I can't tell you
Jenn Quader:how many times I've thought to myself, I can't look at the reality of what's in that Excel sheet because if I do, I'm not gonna make the business decision that I need to make right now. And so I think there's a there's a point to be made for stay stupid. Believe in miracles. Believe that things can happen.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. I don't think there's a more type of bit of that. It's the instinct bit, isn't it? You know?
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's the instinct and the imagination. It's the power in yourself to continue to say, I wonder what would happen if I need to stay I need to stay stupid so I can ask the question, I wonder what would happen if. And that's where you have resilience as being innate or, you know, we like to say it's a state of being, and you're comfortable in the discomfort of that.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Well, let me ask you a couple of questions, Mike. I know you're seated, so you're ready.
Mike Anderson:Do I have to do exercises?
Jenn Quader:Wheels, torso, light things. Don't worry. Yeah. Like calisthenics. Yeah.
Jenn Quader:No. No.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's A
Mike Anderson:couple of quick yoga moves.
Jenn Quader:To hold a plank for two minutes.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. Yes. No. No.
Dr. Kelly Culver:No. No. No. It's like, are you sitting comfortably? Who started their program with that?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Are you sitting comfortably? Somebody that I don't remember.
Mike Anderson:Yes. Yes.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?
Mike Anderson:My favorite TV show, I love Frasier. I love Modern Family. And I funny enough, I think it's sometimes it's important to go to bed with a smile or feeling happy. So those are good shows to watch before you go to bed because they generally make you laugh or make you think it was amusing. So I'm a great believer in kinda going to bed with something uplifting.
Mike Anderson:Okay? So I like things that are uplifting. And I like to start the day with something nourishing. So it's like read one chapter of a book on something that I'm interested in that I feel is a nourishment without being a chore. He'd be showing the movies.
Mike Anderson:I think the most extraordinary movie I ever watched in the sense that I came out of the theater actually quite stressed was Dunkirk.
Jenn Quader:Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Mike Anderson:Right? Yes. I
Jenn Quader:understand. My
Mike Anderson:god. So many emotions. And the the the that that was an absolutely genius film. And I actually had to go for a walk around the block and decompress because it was shocking what they went through and the scenario and what could have happened. And we haven't got those guys out of there.
Mike Anderson:And oh my god. That's shocking. It really, really got me there, that that that movie. You know?
Dr. Kelly Culver:And not that long ago.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. You know?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah.
Mike Anderson:I'm currently, I'm do you watch the bear?
Jenn Quader:I'm not yet watching it. I'm not yet. I've heard so many things, and it's won a million awards, but I haven't yet watched it.
Mike Anderson:Clever film. Clever series. It's really clever what they do there. It's intense. Certainly not comedy.
Mike Anderson:Alright? But but, it's an it's a very gripping, very gripping. You know? So anyway, I like that that was a I'm sort of long answer. I apologize.
Mike Anderson:But
Dr. Kelly Culver:No. But what you've given us is a lesson that you frame you frame and ground your day with nourishment and happiness. And then whatever happens in between happens in between, and you just let it happen.
Mike Anderson:Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:That's a good lesson. That's a good lesson. And what about a song? Do you have a particular song that makes you feel resilient?
Mike Anderson:World's worst. It's got if I said to you, I greet at things, would you know what that meant? The Scottish expression is always bursting into tears. Right? And a greeter.
Mike Anderson:Right? And I'll tell you a couple of funny stories on that one. I'm anybody who can sing or play a musical, I get all emotional. Really weird. Right?
Mike Anderson:I I love the fact that people can do that. Probably something I've you know, even somebody playing the piano on a station, if they're playing it well and beautiful, they're all, that's lovely. I want to just enjoy that. And I love it. Love it.
Mike Anderson:You know? I've got a friend whose daughter is an operatic singer, and she starts singing I'm in Pieces all over the place. And in fact, I'm going to something, so it's recital she's doing. And they said, oh my god, don't you start crying and get because I get all you know? And, I had a very embarrassing Sunday lunch where my daughter my eldest daughter had her friends round, one of whom was at the Royal College, was training to be an operatic singer, is now an operatic singer.
Mike Anderson:And she started singing, and oh my god, I was in pieces at the table, and my wife's always said to me, I've never been so embarrassed in my life. That was just the worst. So so so I love I love songs. I love music. And, yeah, you know, I I I quite like going to you know, I like who doesn't like discovering new talent, new things, and listening to and I flip around from jazz to classic to hip hop to chill.
Mike Anderson:I'm currently into chill, you know. But, yeah, very eclectic sort of music choices.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's something in the recent past that made you laugh out loud?
Mike Anderson:Oh, Clarkson's Farm.
Jenn Quader:I don't know
Mike Anderson:if you've ever watched that show.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yes. Okay.
Mike Anderson:Kelly. Right?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. I know. I we talked about this.
Mike Anderson:Two or three with the chilies It's the comedy gold. Comedy gold. Right? Absolutely love that. You know?
Mike Anderson:And I I I do like a laugh out loud. I do laugh out loud watching the TV. My wife says, oh god. I can hear you in the other room. I think, oh, what's he watching?
Mike Anderson:You know? But I do like to have this sort of hearty chuckle. You know? But, yeah, love all that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I I'm with you on that. For our non UK listeners, Clarkson's Farm is a show in The UK about a a a well known TV personality who
Mike Anderson:It's on Netflix, I think. Isn't it?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. Yeah. Who's who's moved from racing into into farming in The UK, and it's just laugh out loud. From the farming girl here, it's just absolute laugh out loud. Alright.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So my last question for you is this. What is one question you'd like to leave for future guests on Resiliency the podcast?
Mike Anderson:You know, hopefully, it's a nourishing moment, right, or a funny moment. So not not just some of the questions you've asked me. Tell me your most nourishing moment. There you go. There's my question.
Jenn Quader:Beautiful. Oh, I love it. Oh, that's great. Done. Alright.
Jenn Quader:Well, Mike, I get the honor of asking you the question that was left by a former guest. Are you ready? Okay. Beautiful. Yes.
Jenn Quader:So the question is, as a as someone who owned, the one of the first app companies and really understands that world, what is your own personal favorite technology or app for self discovery or self help?
Mike Anderson:Perplexity. You can ask it anything. I think the thing is that the the skill we all need to learn is being a good prompter to an AI tool like perplexity. And, it it it's phenomenal. And I I love it for you know, I use it all the time for things in life.
Mike Anderson:It it helps answer really questions. I'll give an example of good use of complexities. Not to be super clever. My wife's, about to change her car. Lease is up.
Mike Anderson:Says to me, I wanna spend this March. I wanna consider da da da da da da. This normally would be a tour around 15 garages and the sort of painful toing and froing. Again, you go to perplexity. You say, what are the cars that are currently available on a PCP contract at £400 a month, right, available in The UK and currently in stock?
Mike Anderson:It tells you. Right? You have six choices. You have this. You have that.
Mike Anderson:I I I feel like a genius, handing over and answering the questions saying, here you are, darling. There's there's the three choices. There you go. They're the thing. Okay?
Mike Anderson:Now the thing with this stuff is that, of course, what you're gonna learn to do is not fire it back straight away because it looks like you've not made any effort. So you consider that you spent a bit of time. You delay. You give it a few hours, and you go, I'll be through this intensive research program, and I've come up with these answers. There you go.
Jenn Quader:You've taught me something huge. Don't give the answer too fast. Wait a little. Make sure they know that you sweat out you're sweating over it.
Mike Anderson:Yeah. Yeah. But but, you know, it's it's it's invigorating that you can you feel you've got you know, but it it's so helpful in that response, you know, for prompting it in that way and going, oh, I'll just ask that. You know? And isn't it funny about this stuff?
Mike Anderson:It's because everybody kinda goes, oh, no. You don't wanna trust it. You don't wanna listen that. No. It's it's brilliant.
Mike Anderson:You know? It's brilliant. So perplexity would be my current number one favorite. It's something I use all the time. It's great.
Mike Anderson:Really good.
Jenn Quader:I love it. Well, you've inspired me in in many more ways than one today, Mike. I'm gonna be looking into perplexity because I myself would like to feel like a genius. But more than that, Mike, thank you. Thank you for your time.
Jenn Quader:Thank you for for
Mike Anderson:Do you know do you know something as well just on that, Jack? Please? That oh, sorry. I was just gonna say on that. What what's interesting is that nothing's ever a new idea.
Mike Anderson:It's there's always it's just an old thing done differently or better. Because in 1999, I saw a pitch and we considered investing in a business called AKA. Ask any question or something, it was called. No. Not AKA.
Mike Anderson:It was called Ask any question. What would that be? A a a a q. Or something. Okay?
Mike Anderson:And what they were doing was you could you could email or you could, you know, call up and basically had somebody on Google on the other end. They go and give you the answer. And everybody's like, this is amazing. Okay? And today's perplexity is ask any question.
Mike Anderson:I saw that twenty five, thirty years ago. Alright? And and and that didn't make it. Perplexity has raised gazillions of dollars, and it's a huge hit. But it it it's funny, isn't it?
Mike Anderson:That, they and listen. That's what's reassuring in giving people advice as a mentor. Nothing's ever new. It's been here before. This problem has been faced before.
Mike Anderson:There's this there's a path. There's a way. There's a whole right? And that that that's what you're doing is you're just going back and going, hang on. I've seen it.
Mike Anderson:There's here you go.
Jenn Quader:Yeah. And and may we all stay stupid enough to keep believing that the idea that was once had in '99 can come back and smash it as your guys would say in 2024. You know? Yes. Exactly.
Jenn Quader:That's where the hope that's the resilience. Right?
Mike Anderson:Yeah.
Jenn Quader:I love it.
Mike Anderson:Definitely. You know, there's a I I've seen a TED Talk actually about this because they and it was a good piece of work because they basically concluded that the number one reason that things succeeded was timing. It wasn't the idea. It wasn't the fine. It wasn't the you know, if you think so many precursors to Netflix, you know, to to to scope scope, what what do you call it?
Mike Anderson:The the music app?
Jenn Quader:Spotify?
Mike Anderson:Spotify and so on and so forth. Right? Napster, all this stuff. They're all there. And then, you know and and then smartphone and all of that, you know, you could the the collision of kind of the Internet being freely available, broadband services, better demos, all just all colluded to the point where it actually could work.
Mike Anderson:You know? And they said the question was an Uber. It's a timing thing. It's timing. It's the is the number one reason that things succeed.
Mike Anderson:And is sometimes gonna hope you can line up the stars and get the timing right. You know? And that is instinct over over data and insight. You know?
Jenn Quader:I was just gonna say, Mike, because that because it's it's almost less about the stars being lined up because the stars, like nature, nature's gonna happen. Right? The trees are gonna like, the leaves are gonna fall. Nature's gonna happen, but we're the ones that have to act. And so if we know that resilience is inside of us and we trust the instinct, then we'll know that now is the right time.
Jenn Quader:So I think it really is a beautiful, way of encapsulating that innateness that is resilience within us. Beautiful. Now with that, I wanna give you the biggest thank you. I wanna tell you, Mike, that you have inspired us and taught us a lot. And I wanna ask, if people would like to find you to learn more about you, where can they find you online or otherwise?
Mike Anderson:So they can find me on LinkedIn for sure. I always used to introduce myself as I'm Mike. I'm large. I'm Scottish. But I think people need a bit more than that.
Mike Anderson:Right? Get me on wwwdot, and it's .with3t's,d0ttt,.co.uk.
Jenn Quader:For our listeners, that is dot,d0ttt,.c0.uk. And you can look up Mentor Mike and find him. You can find me, Jen Quater, on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, etcetera. You can also find me at my company, thesmartagency.com. Find our wonderful doctor Kelly Culver on both LinkedIn and Instagram, also at culvergroup.ca.
Jenn Quader:She is a Canadian resident and the queen of all things Canada. And for Resiliency the Podcast, we you can find us online at resiliencythepodcast.com, on YouTube, on Spotify, on all of your favorite channels. And, again, we thank you. We thank you for listening. We thank you for continuing to learn about and expand and expand and broaden your horizons when it comes to resilience, and we look forward to welcoming you another time.
Jenn Quader:But until then, we wish you a beautiful and resilient rest of your week. Thanks again.
Creators and Guests
