Resilience as a Double-Edged Sword with Daniela Alba
Welcome to Resiliency the Podcast. This is the place for stories, strategies, and inspiration that will help you to embrace change, overcome challenges, and redefine resilience in today's ever evolving world. I am Jen Quater. I'm a strategic communicator, and I'm the CEO of a company called The Smart Agency. And I am joined by my wonderful, illustrious, brilliant co host, doctor Kelly Culver.
Jenn Quader:She holds a PhD in strategic resilience from the Paris School of Business, which makes her the world's first doctor of resiliency. She's also a really brilliant international consultant and business owner with her company, The Culver Group in Canada. And she's also a great friend and really, really brilliant. And Kelly and I are really excited to have this podcast, Resiliency the Podcast, which comes to you once a week, and it brings you diverse guests from all over the world who educate and motivate and inspire our audience to find your own inner strength in everything from the minutia of everyday life to world altering problems. And today, we are really honored to begin our journey with all of you here at Resiliency the Podcast with a very, very special guest.
Jenn Quader:Today's guest gave one of the most compelling and brave speeches at the recent TEDx Talk event at the American University of Paris that was entitled Resilience Redefined. Now, her accolades and achievements are quite long. She holds a master's degree from the American University of Rome in peace and conflict studies and also holds a bachelor's degree in philosophy with a minor in classics from Brooklyn College at the City University of New York. Now our guest today has worked for Oxfam and UNICEF Italia. She's worked at the Diocese of Brooklyn in New York and she interned at the Consulate General of Italy in New York as well as the FAO headquarters in Rome.
Jenn Quader:Currently, she's working in external partnerships at the Jesuit Refugee Service, JRS, International Office. She is committed to higher education access, to gender based violence and cross cultural advocacy with people who hold lived experience of displacement. The other thing about our today's guest, beyond all of these amazing accolades, is that today's guest was our session sister for these TEDx events. And I would like to welcome and open the floor to this really beautiful, amazing speaker, communicator, and wonderful person, miss Daniella Alba. Welcome, Daniella.
Daniela Alba:Thank you so much, Jen, Kelly, for having me. It's an honor to be here with you, and third time's the charm. We got this.
Jenn Quader:Daniella, shares with our listeners the truth of what is the truth. And so I wanna start by saying our dear listeners, dear ones, everyone who's here with us, we already love you. We're so grateful you're with us. And while this is your first time hearing us, this is our, count them, one, two, three, third time interviewing the brilliant, the wonderful Daniella Alba. We decided to practice Murphy's Law and, like, really just get ourselves in it.
Jenn Quader:You know? And, really, from that, what I'd like to say is, boy, doctor Culver and Daniella, didn't we learn some resilience? What do you guys think about that?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, my goodness.
Daniela Alba:Couldn't agree more.
Dr. Kelly Culver:We've we've been with Daniella from her trip to Nice, in this beautiful background but blustery wind to being in Rome when all of us had technical failures, oh my gosh, to today. Daniela, you mentioned around the fact that we were session sisters at the TEDx. And after it was done, I have to tell our listeners that Daniela went running around saying, We have to make a podcast. We've got to do something with all of this stuff. And Jen and I looked at each other and said, Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:We're on it. So here we are, with our inaugural podcast, Resiliency the Podcast. And Daniela, you are the first guest. Now, we couldn't be more excited. Even if this is the third time we've seen your beautiful face and asked you similar questions, we know we got this.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I
Daniela Alba:want to ask
Dr. Kelly Culver:you, we seem to have developed a bond as session sisters. Why do you think that happened, Daniella?
Daniela Alba:So first and foremost, I want to just acknowledge the fact that I knew from the beginning when we were rehearsing that the two of you were doers. I think there's a certain quality about honing resilience to a T that makes you someone that jumps into action, whether that is in survival mode or whether that is in healing mode or everything in between. And so I think that we developed a bond because each of us in our talks spoke about actions, something very tangible that came out of very difficult points in our lives, facing very difficult situations in different contexts. Maybe even thinking that we were going in the wrong direction, but actually making it the right direction because there is no wrong direction. And I think I was very inspired by just the aura, the energy, the kindness because, you know, I have to be honest.
Daniela Alba:Not every CEO of a company is kind to someone who is just now stepping into the field. So I really felt that it was a girls girls moment for women for women moment. And look at everything you guys have done with just this idea that popped into my mind because I was so inspired by everyone's talk and how kind the group was. You guys really took that, ran with it, made it, and I'm I'm just very grateful that you even heard it and said, we're on it. Just even that.
Daniela Alba:What what what else can you ask for?
Jenn Quader:Daniella, there's magic. There's just magic in what you're saying, and and I think, you know, you two are a doer. And I think that that is the key here is that I can tell this story since it's our first, you know, time that our our listeners are are hearing all of this. But I myself, when I was coming into the the TEDx, I've told this before, I I really thought it was about me. I thought that this was my big goal.
Jenn Quader:I'm gonna get a TEDx, and I'm gonna come in and be like, Jim Quater's done a TEDx. This is great. You know? And I think that when we got there and we listened to each other, and and we all talk a little bit about that tech rehearsal day, the day before we we gave all the speeches live, and we we really just heard each other's stories. And I think that it it ties back to what you just said.
Jenn Quader:You said, you know, you are doers, and then you said we are women for women. You know? And and and I think that, while this podcast is for all genders and all people and all anyone who's seeking resilience, there are three women on this call, and we all have had really varied experiences. And I think that's what our listeners can expect over the course of this podcast is that we're gonna be bringing in people who have had, I'm gonna say wild, wild experiences. I mean, Daniella, your story is wild.
Jenn Quader:It is wild. And and and I have to say wonderful because you are you, and you are so wonderful. But also, you've you've been through so much. And so I so so I will reflect back to you that you are saying, you know, Kelly and I jumped in to get this done, and and we did. But equally, it is the bravery and the energy and the spirit of you to step up and tell your story, and me to step up and tell mine, and Kelly to step up and tell hers.
Jenn Quader:This is what is moving people in 2024 and beyond, is telling our stories in authentic ways. And I think that that could not bring us into a a a better introduction for your TED Talk. And I think our listeners are about to hear that Daniella Alba is a survivor. And and with that, I wanna give our listeners a trigger warning because the story that Daniella is about to tell is one that is harrowing, in truth. It's it's quite difficult.
Jenn Quader:But I also want to comment that having heard this story before, Daniella, you did not just survive. You are also thriving. You are a a world leader and and a speaker and a communicator in talking about this, and you are bringing such an important message of resilience to the world. And I'm honored to introduce our listeners to this talk. So with that, and again, with this trigger warning, knowing that this is some difficult information you're gonna hear, but, you'll be better off for hearing it.
Jenn Quader:I can tell you that. I would like to to gratefully and and with great honor introduce miss Daniella Alba's TEDx talk entitled Resilience as a Double Edged Sword, Women in Displacement.
Daniela Alba:I want to start by thanking you all for being here. It's just amazing to to look out into this audience and receive this energy. I wanna focus on the women here today. When we think of the word resilience, maybe we think of the tenacity, the courage, the fierceness that it takes to get through the unexpected, to come out better than you thought. I want to redefine resilience with you all today by talking about it in one of the most underestimated but pending, most complex situations facing our global community currently, forced displacement.
Daniela Alba:UNHCR's global appeal for the year 2024 estimates that under their mandate, a 30,800,000 stateless and forcibly displaced people need urgent service. These numbers are harrowing as they're not just numbers, but each encompasses a story and their own things. Let us begin with critical intersections in this talk. Resilient women. When we think of resilient women, we may think of women like Rigoberta Menchu, Sherina Bulacle, Maya Angelou, Nadia Murad, Yusra Mardini, Salima Masari, Nargis Mohammadi, and Chimamanda Niozi Adike.
Daniela Alba:Women who give us the inspiration and a vision for a future that includes us at all levels despite perilous and often deadly journeys beyond the glass ceilings and dangers to their own well-being. Their resilience has produced for us momentous change. And in the hopes of adding to the other conversations and the talks here today, I want to add another critical intersection, the resilience of forcibly displaced women. So why specifically these intersections? I want to animate this with a story of a young woman I met back in 2013.
Daniela Alba:After living in an abusive household for most of her life, she had managed to escape her perpetrator. From the ages of six to the ages of 20, she had endured severe domestic violence, which included sexual, psychological, physical, and verbal abuse. Having been recently diagnosed with complex post traumatic stress disorder and struggling to function in her daily life, she was working as a hostess while trying to begin her associate's degree at a community college. She spoke of the invisible scars that the abuse had left on her other than the ones that showed on her face and body. She also bore the wounds of her family story of forced displacement.
Daniela Alba:Immigrating to The United States in the late nineties, she had left her homeland with her mother. The prospects of returning were very slim as the country was suffering decades of internal conflict. By the time we met, she had lived in over five different states, attended over 10 different schools, and had not lived in one home for more than a couple of years. And even though she had succeeded in removing the perpetrator from the home, he would still harass her and her family constantly, waging threats in order to continue harnessing control over the situation and over the family. Having found loopholes in the system for so many years, the perpetrator knew the boundaries well enough not to legally cross them.
Daniela Alba:Even when she appealed to attorneys, they would inform her and her family that unless egregious bodily harm with substantial proof was provided, which is a huge gray area, nothing could really be done about it. So shortly after we met, she dropped out of college to tend to her weakening mental health, which was a result of her trying to be purely resilient. But why was this her definition of resilience? Why was she ashamed of quitting her job and dropping out of school to heal when she most needed it? The truth is that for many women, this is not only the story of their lives, but it's also something they carry hidden.
Daniela Alba:And this is why I think that we should acknowledge that amongst communities of forcibly displaced women, but also women from that host country, this is their reality. You see, we haven't arrived at a point yet in our society where speaking about gender based violence is not still taboo or simply deemed a feminist issue. But it's actually a human issue because violence in every form affects each and every one of us. But even more so for forcibly displaced women in countries where their rights are already nonexistent or carry many minimum legal weight. Amidst the conversation of reporting and the loopholes and the gaps, I want to analyze this context with an assessment of the following three factors.
Daniela Alba:The first addresses a lack of legal protection for forcibly displaced women experiencing gender based violence. The second is the media bias behind what forced displacement is and what it brings with it to the host nation. And the third is the speaking of the lack of resources and community that survivors, wounded healers, and victims have in this already vulnerable state. I think we can all agree that language matters, and I would tackle the idea that based on these three factors, resilience is therefore a double edged sword for women in displacement. So what is a double edged sword?
Daniela Alba:Let's go with with the Merriam Webster dictionary definition, something that has or can have both favorable and unfavorable consequences. Let me illustrate the picture with some data. An alarming report by the World Bank released in 2021 stated that almost one in three women across the world have experienced intimate partner violence and non partner sexual sexual violence at least once in their lifetime. Another report that encompasses this insane number is reported on by The United States. I read an article recently that spoke about intimate partner violence and immigration in a systemic way.
Daniela Alba:And it stated that when examining intimate partner violence, the group of women who reported experienced higher rates or even comparable to US born women rates of intimate partner violence. Narrowing the scope for the sake of this talk, I want to focus on the numbers that are reported on by Western host nations as I believe that the issue of gender violence is always pinned against the forcibly displaced as if it doesn't exist in these Western countries. So a study of the CDC in 2021 estimated that one in four women and one in ten men in The US experience intimate partner violence in their lifetime. Canada reported similarly the same year saying that more than four in ten women have experienced some form of intimate partner violence in their lifetimes. But actually looking over these huge numbers and quotients on these portals of data, none of them speak specifically of forcibly displaced populations.
Daniela Alba:Conversely, a fact sheet produced by the European Institute for Gender Equality in 2022 stated that according to World Health estimates, one in four women in the WHO European region will experience gender based violence at some point in their lives, And the European Coalition Against Violence for Women and Girls published another fact sheet back in 2017 that said, and I quote, undocumented women and women with a dependent migratory status on a spouse or employer are at a heightened risk of abuse and exploitation. This is because the risk of being detained and deported rather than assisted, they face particular barriers in accessing support, protection, and services. What these reports all have in in common is that they lay bare a gap that is most explicitly and consistently unaddressed on an international level, and often only tackled by local grassroots organizations that struggle to advocate these causes, which leads to limitation of funding and the legal obstacles that exist because forcibly displaced communities are not accepted. While actively promoting the resilience of the forcibly displaced is essential to the raising of awareness regarding the toll it takes on a human to make a journey of this kind, it is also often used to suppress their need to express and seek justice in their host nations.
Daniela Alba:I hear very often the rhetoric of you should be grateful you made it out, as if this was somehow a quotient. A question that immediately comes to mind when hearing this is if the issue of gender based violence extends further to the women who are already citizens of those host nations, how can we, according to this data, partner to create safety in spaces of cohesion so that we can tackle these systemic issues together? The young woman shared with me many instances where her teachers, parents of friends, and other individuals in her community urged her to just accept her fate. Even when child protective services would get involved in her home life due to reports from her school, the main option was usually to remain silent for fear of being separated from her siblings, being put into the foster care system, or running into issues with immigration as she was still not a citizen. There's always an aspect of neglect in her story, the way that the system failed her, but also the way that those who could have helped her shape the narrative of her resilience.
Daniela Alba:In one instance, she was waterboarded by her perpetrator and chose to stay quiet because she didn't want to run into issues with the police at the hospital. So she said she had fainted in the shower. Even then, she felt her silence was equivalent to resilience. It was also common for her to witness this type of violence in the homes of her friends, classmates, and other individuals as well. They felt like silent battles that kind of doubled as well kept secrets to integrate properly into her host society.
Daniela Alba:In retrospect, a large part of her silence was also due to the fact that her perpetrator felt protected by the system, knowing well that the threat of losing it all all over again would force her into a state of acceptance. Even when that didn't exist anymore because she had become a citizen, the society she had integrated herself into still did not have the resources to protect her fully. In the state of New York, for example, the limitations for reporting domestic violence have changed as recently as 2019, changing it from one year to two years. New York City is a sanctuary city. Therefore, this is the best case scenario, and this is not a space of safety or cohesion for women who do not know the language and have no access to legal resources.
Daniela Alba:Unfortunately, in order to benefit from these services, you have to be recognized as a resident in the state. This is still not enough, I believe. As telling this story, I want to tell you that she made it through because she found many places along the way. Mentors, friends, colleagues who sheltered her when she found herself periodically homeless due to her perpetrator's abuse. Small moments of comfort in community.
Daniela Alba:Let us begin thinking of resilience and defining it as a community process and a communitarian responsibility. It is both the strength of this young woman and the strength and courage of those who accompanied her that allowed her to bounce back. This does not discount her ineffable and consistent courage, but it also speaks of how community can make the difference between life and death. We surely can benefit from having very difficult conversations about our levels of empathy for one another or the lack thereof. In a world where the media often bombards us with high quantities of violent and distressing content while sensationalizing narratives that paint the forcibly displaced in a negative light, the risk of becoming desensitized poses the question of how we tend to compare, relativize, or even become indifferent to the resilience of the forcibly displaced.
Daniela Alba:Running the risk of becoming yet another generation that says nothing's gonna change, that happens everywhere. Okay. What am I supposed to do about it? I want to loop back to the examples of the women that I gave earlier. They have taken it upon themselves to create sustainable and long lasting change through community.
Daniela Alba:Starting movements, raising awareness in their context, shedding light on these layers of oppression and suffering. Let us not lose sight of the progress that has been made over the years, but what's also left to be done. The economic systems we live under, the situation of geopolitical systems that we are currently facing, and the conflicts in the shape of proxy wars that are waged, the devastation on both the environment and human lives, call us to remember our shared humanity. The previous points I made don't only come from professional and work experience, but they come because that young one that I was telling you about is me. It's been eleven years since I received my new lease on life, and I made it through because of the people who helped me on this healing journey.
Daniela Alba:The love they saw beyond the scars, the reconstructive surgery, the therapy, lived every single triumph, every single obstacle. It is the communitarian resilience that has allowed me to stand before you, but has also given me the space and the courage to fall apart safely. I should not be the exception. I should be the norm. Therefore, I believe that my journey, which is still ongoing, because once you are forcibly displaced, you enter a spectrum that lasts a lifetime, should be all of our responsibilities.
Daniela Alba:I want to therefore propose that if resilience can be thought out, of as a double edged sword, we how can we ensure that forcibly displaced women don't have to see both ends of that blade and hopefully one day never see that blade? Let us explore a combination of powerful proposed solutions that have personally inspired me and have also been given on other TEDx talks and spaces. On a societal level, let's continue promoting policy that pressures governments to actively fight gender based violence for all people residing in a country regardless of their legal status. On a communal level, let's center and elevate the voices of the forcibly displaced in decision making environments and hold no impunity towards organizations, systems, and individuals engaged in the practice of suppressing said voices. On a personal level, let's create safe spaces for forcibly displaced women using all collective and creative resources as we have heard today from the other talks.
Daniela Alba:The arts, education, innovation, all channels of expression that can help to promote this healing. I assure you, mother earth herself teaches us how to navigate a double edged resilience. She performs it for us every single day. Anytime that she's carved out in the name of profit and greed for the few, she still finds a way to be bountiful and generous, but still cry cry out in pain, giving us the water, the food, and the land we live on while providing extreme temperatures, destruction, and other catastrophes. Let us be inspired by her way of speaking to sustain one another on a journey to change, which is built slowly but surely.
Daniela Alba:To all those who try to stop me from speaking and using resilience against me, I invite you to this conversation. To my perpetrator, I will continue to share my story and speak loudly so that individuals like you do not feel confident to move throughout society with ease. To those of you who have gotten me to this place, those of you in the audience, thank you. I have hope and I believe in it because of you. To those of you here who have heard the rhetoric of you're strong and resilient, you'll be just fine, other people go through worse, I see you.
Daniela Alba:I hear you. I believe you. Speak your truth to power. Elevate one another's voices. Together, we can redefine resilience for forcibly displaced women.
Daniela Alba:Olive trees do not grow overnight, but every single seed that is properly watered and cultivated bears fruit in its due time.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You know, Daniela, I think this is the fourth time we've watched this together, and it is just as powerful as the very first time. It catches in your throat, the story you tell us. Your, and I'll use your words, the narrative of your resilience. I think those are beautiful words. So you've given us the narrative of your resilience.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And Jen said just before, she introduced your TED Talk about surviving and thriving, and you've heard me talk about the resilience trinity. And it's based on survive, adapt, and thrive. And when I think of the Trinity, I see your face, and I'm very happy about that. How has this TED Talk changed your life? Can you tell us and our listeners what's happened since March?
Daniela Alba:Well, first of all, yes, I think, you know, it's it's very hard not to get emotional every single time because I think when you watch it with other people, you really realize just how much of yourself you're exposing. And even though I'm not ashamed whatsoever, there's still the little girl that, I guess, the little me inside of me that I have to soothe every single time we watch that. And I always like to watch people's reactions. When I was in the room, immediately, I felt the energy, and that was something that really changed my life. Because when you're speaking in front of an audience, you both know.
Daniela Alba:Sometimes you're feeding off of that reciprocal energy. Are they engaged? Do they feel it? How do they perceive what you're saying? And, really, the energy in that room was what carried me through.
Daniela Alba:Because there was many moments in that talk where I was visibly nervous. I think, you know, I, like I said, I have complex post traumatic stress disorder, and the way that sometimes that manifests is the fear of not the knowledge of what then comes next. So, will my perpetrators see this? Will people who were directly involved in the situation see this? How will they perceive that?
Daniela Alba:Will it backfire? You know, all of these, intrusive thoughts, if you will. So, I think what has changed is that I have learned to normalize that trinity when I speak about being a wounded healer. So, more than just a survivor, it's really healing that wound day in and day out, and then carrying it so that other survivors can get to the point where they feel empowered to also speak and share, loudly. And so, that's the first way in which my life has changed, and also building community further.
Daniela Alba:So, like, being speaking with you and sharing with you has really changed my life because I think, you always go into TED Talks thinking, I wonder how how this is gonna be perceived on a wider scale. So more than just the audience, more than just a group of people. How are people in my professional field going to perceive this? How are people going to receive this in a academic setting? Like, how is this going to evolve?
Daniela Alba:And really, I've had nothing but support. I've had nothing but, positive feedback. And, of course, a lot of people who are very close to me and did not know this, also now have a lot of answers to periods of time where I would just kinda isolate and shelter myself. And so I think it's been extremely healing. I think it has also helped to heal a lot of wounds that were left over because it's, it's an everyday process.
Daniela Alba:And then it has also taught me to not be ashamed to tell my story and to display my vulnerability and to actively talk about how hard it is to speak about these things. And, you know, not be ashamed of the fact that I look visibly uncomfortable and vulnerable in that recording.
Jenn Quader:Well, I'd like to say you also look beautiful and strong and wonderful in that recording. So I wanna acknowledge the double edged sword of that, and I think that that's something really important for our listeners. We we talk about that what we're doing here is is telling our own stories in hopes that listeners find their own inner strength. And I think it's good for them to understand you didn't walk up there without nerves. You didn't walk up there without you you didn't magically heal your complex post traumatic stress syndrome in order to do this.
Jenn Quader:You simply had it and still did it. And I think that is really the message that we're bringing to people is this is worth it. You know, you say in there, you say speak your truth to life, and that is what you did. And so I first wanna say, I mean, as I every time I watch that talk, Daniella, I love you. Like, I love you.
Jenn Quader:I love everything about you. I love what you are bringing. I love you know, I I wish I could go and rescue you from what you what you went through. And at the same time, I love that you endured and that you I mean, I don't love that that it happened to you. Don't get me wrong.
Jenn Quader:Okay? But I love that you, as a spirit, are strong enough to stand up and help us understand resilience. And so with that, you know, the the big surprise, the big reveal in that talk is that you yourself are the person who went through those absolutely horrible abuses. And, again, that never should have happened, but it did. And and during that time, what you talk about is this changing definition of resilience.
Jenn Quader:It was kind of served to you. Here's how you can be resilient. Be quiet and take your licks. You know? And and and you found the true meaning of resilience.
Jenn Quader:And so I wanna ask for our listeners and for you, what does resiliency mean to you now, and what do people need to know about being resilient?
Daniela Alba:Thank you, Jen, for your words. They really mean a lot to me. Obviously, you were there in that moment. So you saw the before, the during, the after. You lived that with me.
Daniela Alba:And that thank you at the end also was geared towards you because if it wasn't, for that safe environment that I felt from my session sisters, I wouldn't have felt compelled to even probably perform it. Because up until the last minute, I was like, should I do it? Should I not? I I still have time. I can back out.
Daniela Alba:So, I really want to put that out there. Just like doctor Kelly was mentioning earlier, this trinity, has really become an emblem of what resilience is for me now. I think that resilience is something it's a tool, it's a gift, and it is also something that should not be normalized in certain settings. Obviously, resilience takes on many forms depending on the context. That is not like a monolithic concept, and I'm sure Doctor.
Daniela Alba:Kelly can back me up on this. So, in this specific context, I think resiliency for me means a call to action. So how, what, how can we really highlight this issue the same way that we highlight incompatible standards of beauty and unachievable goals that we put on our bodies as women, on our weight, on our achievements in life, on the standards we live under in our societies? And how can we tackle this specifically with gender based violence for forcibly displaced women without glorifying it to the point where we normalize it, but tackling it in a way that we're actually shaping something that in the long run will benefit everyone involved? Because even the person who is hurting the person, so even my perpetrator is a hurt person.
Daniela Alba:Where does that hurt come from? How is that structural violence also a symptom of something that society needs to face and be resilient about? But what does that resilience look like? How can we shape that on a on a societal level, on a cultural level, on a religious level? You know, lots of nuances.
Daniela Alba:So Wow.
Jenn Quader:That that's huge, Danielle. I mean, honestly, what you just said is huge because what you're talking about is not just call it the survivorship resilience, but resilience of all, resilience of society. Because if you're saying you're saying, look, not only do do victims, those who've actually been hurt, have to become resilient, but we have to find a way to build resiliency such that perpetrators don't feel that need, that hate, that anger, whatever that that darkness is. Boy, it's a big concept. You know what I mean?
Jenn Quader:Like, this is and and and it's another thing that I that I'm always surprised by and and you speak about it, Daniella, but I I I always thought of resilience kind of like, if you could think of it as like going into the gym. Right? And, like, I'm going in the gym, you know, you talked about body image. Certainly, I'm someone who always feels like you gotta lose weight, gotta lose weight. So you you go into the gym and you think that it's all about, like, you pushing yourself.
Jenn Quader:Like, go harder. Let me let me add more weight to that. Let me do it. But what I learned really through your talk, Daniella, and then it was really backed up through doctor Kelly Culver's talk, who you're gonna hear that, listeners in in future episodes. But the element of community.
Jenn Quader:Community is what makes resilience work. It's what makes resilience so powerful. You call it, Daniella, a communitarian responsibility. So I wonder, can we talk for a minute about the power of community as it relates to resilience? I'll open the floor.
Jenn Quader:You know, Daniella, what are your thoughts, doctor Kelly? What are your thoughts on community and resilience?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Resilience is bigger than us. You know, and that's and Danielle is going to make this point more eloquently than me. But and and we saw that. You know, I always smile, Jen, when you talk about you going to the TEDx, and it's all about me, it's all about me. And then the light bulb moment, and I was sitting beside you when it happened, Is it, wow, it's bigger than me?
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's like, yeah, it is. Resilience is bigger than me, and it's bigger than us, and it is a community. And, Daniella, you are probably more articulate in this than than I possibly could be. What are your thoughts?
Daniela Alba:No. Actually, I was going to ask you because I know in the future the listeners will will hear you. And, I think something that I learned from your talk, after my talk, and especially during the rehearsal that really kinda shifted my, the shame component that I had was when you spoke about the need to acknowledge that the the negative aspects of it in order to get to the positive aspect of it. So actually, I guess my question to you would be, in that community aspect, can we see that double edge of like, what are the negatives? What are the positives?
Daniela Alba:And how, as the first doctor of resilience, do you see that evolving within this context?
Dr. Kelly Culver:We have to find the inner strength to walk through whatever it is that we're experiencing. And that means we have to walk through the pain, we have to walk through the grief, we have to walk through the situation to get to the other side where we can reflect and look back and say that's changed me. Sometimes better, sometimes not so good. Some are better days, some are crap days. That's the you know, that's what we have.
Dr. Kelly Culver:But resilience is is a concept that fits the context in which you find yourself, and it means different things to different people. And there is no one globally accepted definition for resilience. I think it's the ethos that we are a bigger community, and there's something there's a piece of light somewhere that you can find, that you can grab onto, and it pulls you through the situation in which you find yourself. It pulls you through being forcibly displaced, pulled me through profound grief. You know, why do I want to live today kind of things.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You have it, and and it's I I think it's innate, but I I also think that right now, we're just, you know, starting to define maybe in in a clearer way what resilience means. I wanted to bring back to you something. You said that without your session, sisters, you wouldn't have had the confidence to give your TED Talk. Now I challenge you on that because our audience doesn't know something, and I'd like you to tell tell them about this. You had a superhero costume on.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You had the most beautiful clothes that had been specially made for you by a woman who had been forcibly displaced, and you honored her in doing that. And I think that's what gave you the confidence to talk. Tell us about that.
Daniela Alba:Yes. So thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah. I think, every single part of the outfit was something that was pre thought of And for sure, elements of ancestral strength, generational strength that came with my jewelry, which, comes from the tribe that I belong to from my father's side of the family in Colombia.
Daniela Alba:A lot of strength also in the nature elements that it carries as it symbolizes the God of the sun and the moon. And then of course, the suit that was handmade over six weeks by Wafa, who is a Palestinian refugee living in Lebanon, working with Enosh, a company that helps forcibly displace, Palestinian women in Lebanon to craft, their own tatris, which is a woven tradition from Palestine, into suits that they then sell so that they can make money and earn a living. And, for me personally, I dream of the day where I can meet Wafaa and tell her that I was able to honor her resilience. And I think the pictures in the slide shows were also from Sudanese, Congolese, Syrian women, people from Myanmar, people from I featured different I featured an icon from Kelly Lattimore. That really inspires me.
Daniela Alba:It's the Holy Family displaced. And so you see, the people from Central And South America who walk up to The US by foot. And I think honoring those journeys, honoring all of the spectrums of what forced displacement is, that uncertainty, the faces, the humanity behind it, really was a way for me to gain the courage. But, of course, I think, again, I I doubled down on the fact that even after the first rehearsal, seeing both of your reactions and getting your feedback and just, you know, watching you guys also perform it and just cheer me on the entire time was something that really changed my life. My friends, Jana, her boyfriend, Paolo, my friend Giacomo, who came all the way from Rome to sit in the audience and live that moment with me.
Daniela Alba:The entire community that really helped me craft this, Doctor. Amaya Balcarcel, who helped me write the TED Talk itself. So it was really, again, a community process, not only of resilience, but of gaining the courage to tell my story and to see it from the eye of the other in order to give it maybe the the element that I lack because I lived it. And so there's blind spots in it.
Jenn Quader:I wanna say that you asked doctor Culver about kind of the negative and positives of community. And as I see you speak about, you know, not only what we were able to give each other, you know, as session sisters getting ready, but then, you know, this this beautiful woman, Wafa, who creates this beautiful outfit for you to wear, What I what I I take from that and I see in that is that the positives of community, of course, are that we can all support each other. And, again, across the world, you haven't even met Wafa, and you are helping to support her business. And so I think that that's something that our listeners can take and and learn that, you know, simply by listening to this, you're already helping. It's already helping if you're just listening because you're opening your mind to that.
Jenn Quader:Now on the negative side, you know, you you asked, like, what what are the negative implications of community? And I think I can speak to that, and and you speak to it in in your talk also, and and that is, deception. And and sometimes it's not even it's it's not even purposeful deception. Sometimes it's just what they were told. But sometimes when your community says, no.
Jenn Quader:Shh. Don't tell anyone. Be quiet about that. Again, take your licks. Hide your scars.
Jenn Quader:You know? That can be very powerful, and a lot of people, I'd say displaced or not. I I think that yeah. I think regardless of your human circumstance, there are external factors that sometimes you see them as real in the moment. And, again, I go back to that that horrible and yet most powerful moment where you talked about literally being waterboarded and going into a hospital and not being able to tell the truth about that.
Jenn Quader:What role does the truth play in resiliency, and what role does hope play in resiliency?
Daniela Alba:Wow. Okay. That is that is a heavy, heavy question. Let me try my best to take a smack at it, and then I'm gonna pass it on to doctor Kelly Culver because I believe heavily in her experience as well. So the truth, Jen, I think, plays a critical role in the healing portion, specifically.
Daniela Alba:I can only speak for myself because I can't speak for other victims, survivors, wounded healers. But I can say that being able to face the truth at a later date was a survival mechanism and a coping mechanism throughout that endeavor. Because if I had to face the truth and share it while I was in that situation, to be quite honest with you, I'm not sure I would have survived. Not mentally, not emotionally, maybe not even physically. So, I think that really the truth has its time and place, unfortunately.
Daniela Alba:And that is one of the components that I really am advocating for. That no one should have to close that truth, just like you said, into certain quarters in order to be able to live it. You should just be able to live it and it should be normalized and you shouldn't be expected to just keep it for as long as you need to in order to survive and then share it. So that's what truth means to me. Truth means you've gotten to the finish line.
Daniela Alba:But I would argue that truth needs to be consistent throughout because compartmentalizing emotionally and psychologically what you're going through in order to survive also has its negative consequences. And I live that every day when I deal with my anxieties and my PTSD. A lot of intrusive thoughts about what people think about me, because my perpetrator continued to gaslight me throughout those years when I would threaten to expose the truth. And, this person would tell me, well, no one's gonna believe you because you're not consistent. Well, who's gonna listen to you?
Daniela Alba:Why do you think people are gonna care? People have their own lives, their own things to deal with. And so this gaslighting sometimes plays out in real life, even now. I'm 31 years old, and I'm not ashamed to say that there are times where even just the way someone looks at me in the moment, my inner child will perceive it as the words of my perpetrator coming to life. And so the truth really plays a crucial role in healing that wound consistently.
Daniela Alba:Not putting a band aid on it, like, really putting a cast on it and letting that cast sit. And I think hope and truth kind of interweave in a beautiful way. Hope that this cast will heal. And when I take off this cast, whatever is left is just proof of that truth surviving all odds in, in this specific context. But I think that hope also plays a role in the work that I do in my profession.
Daniela Alba:It plays a role in believing that even in the having looked at the worst of humanity in a person, I still believe that there is a way to help others. I still believe that there are good people out there. I still believe that even with all the deception you mentioned from many of community, in the past years that I've had, I still believe that this is solvable, that this is not a fact, that this is something that can, again, consistently change, and that that is the only consistency that it is able to change and therefore hope exists. So I don't know what you have to say about that, Jen, Kelly.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You know, there's there's a word for me that sits in the middle of truth and hope because it expresses it's a word that expresses both things. To tell the truth, to live the truth, even if it's in the moment or if it's delayed, because sometimes we have to we have to surround ourself with a block because the truth at the at that instant in time is not something we can really deal with. We have to just be be in the situation, and we'll we'll look at the truth of that situation in a delayed reaction, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's called courage. It's courage to have the truth, to take the truth, to see the truth, to express the truth at your time, in your time, on your time frame, and having hope, being hopeful, being full of hope, seeing hope as opposed to despair requires courage.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You know, I I sometimes tell people, yes. There's a smile, and, yes, there's this this this. I know there's a solution here. We can walk our way, but make no mistakes. When I got up this morning, I had to put my pants of steel on.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You just can't see them. I do that all the time.
Jenn Quader:I need some pants of steel, doctor Culler. That's we're we're gonna have to maybe we should sell those on resiliencythepodcast.com.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yep. We'll work that in.
Jenn Quader:I like that. I I love the idea of courage as and I think that what a what an amazing way to put it. Daniella, I love your metaphor of the cast. I have a friend who I was working through some of my own challenges as we all have, And she said to me once, she said, Jen, I think you're trying to heal before you've released. Yeah.
Jenn Quader:And see, that's really important. And and what we're talking about here is that there are stages of how to build this resilience. And I think this comes back to a really important point. I'm so glad this is our first episode because I think our listeners are gonna get a lot out of this. Because what we're learning is resilience is not some little formula.
Jenn Quader:It's not a plus b equals c. That resilience is this constant effort of balancing all of these things. And when we go back to that idea of the cast, and so the cast is the truth. I have to look at that. And then the hope is it's gonna heal, you know, and the hope is the magic that does that.
Jenn Quader:And the courage is like the blood running through it actually putting the bones back together. And I think that it is in these moments of courage. And, you know, it's so interesting to me because courage can be looked at as so many things. I think any one of our listeners would say all three of us sitting on this podcast are courageous. Right?
Jenn Quader:We're speaking in public. We're we're unscripted. We're sharing it all with you. Right? But I think that there is courage in simply telling an honest truth to a friend.
Jenn Quader:There is courage in showing up a place that you didn't know that you could. You know, Daniella, you speak of maybe I don't know. Will I make it to the stage? You know? So I I really I love that that point was made because I think that in life, as we you know, one of the things we talk about a lot here and you will hear about in all of these episodes, listeners, is that life is not easy.
Jenn Quader:We all know it. We all know it. But but but it's almost like we're surprised each day when we when we experience this pain. We're like, wait a minute. This is too much.
Jenn Quader:This is too much. But the truth is it's not too much. None of us have gone through too much because what what is happening to us helps us to become part of that fabric of society. We can stand here and speak about courage and truth and hope, and we can help to inspire other people. And I think with that, I wanna ask, how do we inspire those other people?
Jenn Quader:So so I I I really wanna look toward resources. That's something that we're bringing to our listeners here at Resiliency the Podcast. There's a resilience toolkit that we you will be able to find. There'll be a link in the show notes. And so I wanna ask you, Daniella.
Jenn Quader:You know, you are someone who has has traveled all over the globe. You are working every day with survivors, with people who are working to thrive with amazingly courageous people. Talk to me about what are the resources that can help people going through things that you've experienced and the people that you work with? How can our listeners become more resilient through these through these resources?
Daniela Alba:Well, thank you, Jen. I think, first of all, to acknowledge my privilege to access these resources is one thing And to also understand that there are unfortunately many, many people who do not have that, capacity, access, or equity. And we are witnessing some of those daunting realities as we speak in the normalization of those realities on a global level. And I think it's very important in my daily work, I do this as a resources to listen to those voices, to listen to those voices, to, really hear those cries for help and be inspired to action, to have difficult conversations, uncomfortable conversations, consistently speak about things that people want to stop speaking about because they're not nice, cute, marketable. They're not chic.
Daniela Alba:They're not a distraction, because like you said, life is very hard. And for some people, I believe it is, in fact, harder than for others. So I think that working with forcibly displeased people, people on the move, stateless people, with JRS has really taught me to look at what that really looks like within a person that does not have access and equity. How can I hear their experiences, their voices, and really learn from that? But I think that on a very basic level, some of the resources that are easily accessible for many people, if you have complex traumatic stress disorder, ASMR, nature sounds, going on nature walks, actually being one on one with the earth and not on your phone, not with headphones, literally just nothing.
Daniela Alba:Just you and mother earth really reconnecting, really touching grass, smelling flowers, like feeling water on your skin, all of the sensory things that maybe you have been deprived of within your experience of abuse can be a very underestimated resource, and undervalued resource of healing. Another one is also education. There are many books that I will share with you guys in that resource toolkit that have personally helped me to really move through all of those things in several different languages, because I also think we live in a world that has centered certain languages, because of colonization. And there are many people who do not have access to those resources because either they do not read or write, they do they lack that education, or they just simply don't understand the language. So I also think creating that is a huge effort as a community that can really help to build something really sustainable towards a change, a sizable change.
Daniela Alba:And then, of course, building that community. And what that looks like can even start with yourself. Because I think you said it before about working with your friend through something. And she said, well, you're trying to, and I quote, heal before you have released. But what is your release?
Daniela Alba:Right? So what that looks like for you, and if you have the access to it, release first, right, in order to heal. So that's a huge resource. The arts, activism, education, innovation, everything that I said in my talk, you know, we heard during the TED Talks, and I'm sure they'll be here on the podcast, you know, different tools of how to use art, music, even recycling as a method of healing. And so this is really something super personal, something that each and every one of us have to explore.
Daniela Alba:But we first have to create the spaces where people can actually afford to explore that. So I think a huge resource of that is having difficult conversations with people and saying, guys, if we don't start thinking of each other as equally human, equally worthy, what is the future gonna look like for all of us? And having those difficult conversations to advocate and bring visibility, to people living this reality who do not have the means or the access or the equity to heal.
Jenn Quader:Equally human. I love that, Daniella. I think that's exactly right. And I and I and frankly, the way you've just spoken of of this really, I hate to be the PR gal on the call, but, it it really helps to to explain what are the benefits of this resiliency, the podcast. Because what what I heard you say is that there are all these different methods of healing, methods of releasing, and also methods of getting the gumption, getting the courage to do it.
Jenn Quader:So it's back to the trinity, Kelly. You know? It's it's back to there are there are these things that we all have to do, and not everyone's gonna be different. You know? Or excuse me.
Jenn Quader:Not everyone's gonna be the same. Everyone's gonna be different. The method of healing for someone who has gone through displacement and abuse is gonna be quite different than the method of healing for someone who's gone through not that. You know? But at the same time, I think that that is what the the resilience toolkit and it's what this series of conversations is really meant to be.
Jenn Quader:It's really been meant to be a look into the lives of resilient people. What's the story? I mean, Daniella, you are an example, a shining light, a a a lighthouse, if you will, of resilience. You know? You are you are standing up and speaking on behalf of yourself, on behalf of all women.
Jenn Quader:I I just think that it's so inspiring. And I also think that someone who has not even close to that lived experience can relate to you because, as you said, we're all equally human. And so with that, we need this resilience. There I the this will be my my moment to stand on a a little soapbox here, but why are we doing this? We're doing this because the whole world is sad.
Jenn Quader:Right? If we if if we haven't opened up a a a news story and seen it yet, the whole world is struggling with things that we in a way that it never has before. It's like it's getting us. Right? It's starting to get us, and we don't want that.
Jenn Quader:We don't want it to get us because the power of community, the power of resilience, it it doesn't just bring success and wealth and it it brings this inner peace and happiness. And so I I think that really you know, I'm inspired by you, Daniella, because I see in you someone who can who who can transform in a way that's unbelievable and yet perfectly believable because that's the power within every one of us. So I I love that you share it so openly. I'm amazed by it. With that, I wonder if we want to dive on over to our rapid fire quick questions to let our audience get to know a little bit more about Daniella before we let her go back to her beautiful work and her beautiful day there in Rome.
Jenn Quader:What do you think, doctor Culler?
Dr. Kelly Culver:I think that's an excellent idea, and I'd like to call, Daniela our beacon. You know, as opposed to a a light or a lighthouse, I think Daniela is a lovely beacon of resilience and and a light that we can see on the horizon. But, yes, Daniela, now is the time. You've been dreading. I'm going to ask you some questions.
Daniela Alba:I just don't have a
Dr. Kelly Culver:lot of time to think about them. So the most fun part.
Daniela Alba:Oh, no.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?
Daniela Alba:I actually have the answer this time. I don't do one answer, one only because it's just too hard, but I'll narrow it down. Secret Ballot, Roma, Hidden Figures, and Princess Monocoke.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Excellent. And you know me, I don't live life in an either or anymore. It's both and everything all the time all at once. So I appreciate what you've just said. Either or is not working my world anymore.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Nope. That's resilience. Everything all the time all at once. What's what's your favorite song that makes you feel resilient?
Daniela Alba:So more than songs, there are two specific artists that definitely are my go to. The first one is Mercedes Sosa, the voice of Latin America, basically. And Cali Uchis, who's a Colombian American, singer, R and B artist. And then there's a specific song that keeps playing in my mind. Not that makes me feel resilient, but that makes me normalize, healthy levels of sexuality for women.
Daniela Alba:So and that is Espresso by Sabrina Carpenter, because we should all be able to speak freely about feeling sexy, confident, beautiful in a very funny innuendo ish way without being crass and still feeling that we are worthy of it. And so it's a really fun song, and I love to listen to it, and it makes me feel that no matter what has happened to my body, no matter how much people have tried to degrade it or tarnish it, I'm still that me espresso.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I love that. Love, love, love, love, love, love. The last rapid fire question I have for you, Daniella, is what is a question you'd like to leave for a future guest?
Daniela Alba:So I think the last two times I suggested the question, if you could do anything, no matter the resources, no matter what it took and you had it at your disposal, what would you do and why haven't you done it yet? And actually, I wanna shift that a little bit and say, if you put yourself in the shoes of the people that you avoid looking at in the news every day, what would you want someone else to be doing for you? And how can we make that happen?
Dr. Kelly Culver:I love the shift. I love the shift. That is powerful. So you've you've answered the rapid fire questions, but we have one last one. And it's a question that a different guest has left for you.
Dr. Kelly Culver:A future guest has left for you. And the question for you is, what do you want your epitaph to read?
Daniela Alba:Wow. That's a really profound question. I think I would want it to read my lineage. So I would want to acknowledge both my mother's lineage from Spain, my father's lineage from the original peoples of the Abiayala, now known as South America, the territories belonging to the Muisca people specifically, and giving gratitude for that and for all that that was. And that's what I would want and to just acknowledge that I was surrounded by love the entire time.
Daniela Alba:So that includes I would probably have the names written down of the people who have loved me my entire life, regardless of everything amongst those people, just to shout out. Hannah Rabelais, Charisse, Alicia, Marisela Verasteguis, Nela Tabara, Yassie Ecta, Jagani, just to name a few, Francisco, Rosario, Alex, my siblings, the people who really inspire me every single day and who I think of when I do absolutely anything. And to the people who have opened doors for me, Doctor. Irene Caratelli, So many of my professors from undergrad, I can't even name them. And obviously my grandfather, Juan Guillermo, who, God rest his soul, was the proof to me that not, not all men are the same and that love really can make the difference.
Daniela Alba:And, of course, my grandmother, Victoria, so my grandparents and then the rest of my family just written down because I am a mosaic of all that love and all of that endurance, that resilience. And so that's what I would wanted to say.
Jenn Quader:Daniella, thank you. You are a a mosaic of love. Love is a beautiful way to say it. You are a mosaic of love. And and beyond that, I love you.
Jenn Quader:As I said, I think doctor Kelly Culver loves you. I think we love each other. But more than that, this is what it's all about. And so I just wanna thank you. I I could not be more delighted that you have been our first guest.
Jenn Quader:I want you to know that your story is powerful. It's important, and that you are making a huge difference. And so please add Jen Quater and Kelly Culver to that list of people who have always loved you because we do. And with that, I hope you'll, share with our listeners where can they find you online if they'd like to follow your work and continue to learn more about, the beautiful things that you're doing?
Daniela Alba:Yes. Thank you, Jen. And, yes, of course, as my session sisters, you are definitely there, and you also inspire me. I think when I see women who are older than me, loving on women younger and really kind of tending that ladder and you guys like help me up those steps. I'll never forget Doctor.
Daniela Alba:Kelly Culver told me right before I went on the stage. She said, do it, Believe in yourself. You are powerful. Don't underestimate it. You got this.
Daniela Alba:And it was like a and it just, like, went. And so, you know, it's really those little things that really just make things happen. Your hug after my talk was, like, oof, that release, Jen. Like, I really just needed to be hugged in that moment. And so it's really those little things.
Daniela Alba:So if anyone wants to connect, you can find me on LinkedIn, Daniella Alba. You can write to me on Daniella.Alba@live.com. I am also on Instagram, which I can share with you in the resources as well because the handle is a little weird. And, of course, if you want to see the work that GRS does, the mission to advocate, serve in a company within four forcibly displaced people, you go to jrs.net. We are present in 57 countries, in over eight regions, and we would love to have you on board to look at what we have and to share in the journey with, those that we accompany and serve.
Daniela Alba:So
Jenn Quader:Beautiful. Thank you, Daniella. All of these resources will be available in the show notes, and then I'll remind our listeners that Daniella is also going to give us a list of resources, shops, really cool things that are being made by women in displacement. So our listeners can help and shop, which is just kinda fun. You know?
Jenn Quader:So, I I wanna make sure everybody knows that there's lots of resources available. As we sign off, you can find us online at resiliencythepodcast.com. You can also find us on all of the platforms, all your favorite ones, Spotify, Apple, etcetera. Please subscribe, like this episode, become part of our community. You will hear more and more that resilience requires a community, and that is what we are building here is a beautiful community of resilient people.
Jenn Quader:You can find me, Jen Quader, online on all the socials. That's j e n n, Quader, q u a d e r, and then you can also find me at jenquader.com. My beautiful, wonderful, brilliant cohost, doctor Kelly Culver. Find her company online at culvergroup.ca. That is .ca.
Jenn Quader:That's for Canada because she's the queen of Canada. And you can also find her at doctorkellyculver.com, and then doctor Kelly Culver on both Instagram and LinkedIn. And so with that, we want to just say thank you. This was our inaugural episode. Yes.
Jenn Quader:We tried it thrice, and I think the third time we've nailed it. And I just wanna say, we we love all of you guys. We love this community, and we love the idea that we are building resilience in a way that is unique to each person, that we are harnessing the power inside. And so with that, we wish you a a beautiful rest of your week. We hope you'll continue to tune in.
Jenn Quader:You will hear new episodes weekly with beautiful stories of resilience. And we hope that you continue to benefit from an inner strength that allows you to thrive, allows you to enjoy beautiful relationships, and allows you to feel the love that we all feel in this world. So with that, many, many thanks. We out from Resiliency the Podcast.
Creators and Guests
