Resiliency The Podcast

Jenn Quader
Welcome to Resiliency, the podcast. Today's guest is a nationally recognized award winning author. You may have seen her on one of her many appearances on CBS, NBC, Fox News, and many other major media outlets. She has written two fiction novels, Crystal Beach and Truce Island, both of which have received many powerful endorsements. Then she wrote a true and inspiring story called Brenda's Wish.

which was released in 2020, has won several national awards and received several excellent endorsements, including two national foundations and many incredible reviews. But today's guest, the story of resilience does not stop there. Her passion for writing and for helping others has led her to create a company called Dream to Author. Through this, she has helped hundreds of writers by providing assistance through things like online training and coaching services

to help them do something that may feel impossible, but is not, and that is publish their own incredible stories. Today, we are gonna hear from someone who's, bleh, bleh, bleh, let me do it again. Through this, she's helped hundreds of writers by providing assistance through things like online training and coaching to help them create and publish their own incredible stories. Her latest release is a book called, Write Your Book, Let's Get It Done.

It's a how-to book that helps others to understand what it takes to write their own amazing story and to be successfully published. Bringing us so many insights on the resilience in the publishing industry, we are so excited to welcome the award-winning author, Ms. Haley. Welcome, Jackie.

Jackie Haley (06:40)
Thank you so much for having me here. This is such an important podcast and I'm so honored to be a guest on it. So thank you so much.

Dr Kelly Culver (06:49)
Jackie, we are really, really thrilled that you're with us. And I'm going to say to our listeners for full transparency, I have had the benefit of some coaching sessions by Jackie to get the book in my head out. And I can tell you, it's transformational working with her. So we're really happy that you're here today. Thank you. And we'd like to start, as we always do, what does resiliency mean to you, Jackie Haley?

Jackie Haley (07:15)
my goodness, there are so many aspects that involve resiliency. Every day we have a challenge we're faced with, no matter what, but it's how we bounce back, how we become resilient, how we can achieve the goals to have that better life, have that success story rather than the failures, and being able to understand how to be resilient.

and how to accept challenges and move forward, I think is a super important topic. even through telling stories and having wonderful podcasts like this, this is a way we can inspire people and help people get over those challenges that we face every day. So that's what it means to me. It's really the foundation. It's the basis of my business is really sharing stories that help others. And there are so many amazing stories out there that revolve around really

It's great.

Jenn Quader (08:11)
And what you're talking about is so important because it requires resiliency to get these stories told. The stories are there, but it requires this resiliency. And you use the word challenge, which is something we like to say here at Resiliency, the podcast, that we are stories and strategies that help you to face those challenges and embrace change. But one of the things that's a real challenge and a real barrier is that first book. It's breaking that, it's breaking through, right? How do you get the first book out? So I want to know like,

Jackie Haley (08:17)
Yes. Yeah.

It's so true.

Jenn Quader (08:41)
For you, Jackie, let's start with you, because you help hundreds of others, but you yourself started in this realm. What did it take to get through that challenge? What were those barriers? And then how did you get through them to get that first book out?

Jackie Haley (08:54)
Thank you for asking. That's an actual excellent question and probably one of the toughest tests to resiliency that I had. ⁓ I wrote this book. In fact, my first book, I didn't intend on it having a book. I just started writing a story. We were family planning. so we, and I don't know if I told you this, Dr. Culver, but we were, we were writing our first, I was ⁓ building our first house. We were building house and it was,

08 right at the housing crisis and we thought we better get our house on the market right now. I know this is a little hard because we're family planning and we've got two little ones. ⁓ But we got that done and we decided okay. All of a sudden we thought it's gonna take it months and months and months to sell and it ended up selling in like a month and we go crap.

all of a sudden now we're living in my wonderful in-laws basement. You couldn't ask for better in-laws, but we're living in a basement of a home that's not ours. And ⁓ I have a two-month-old and a 16-month-old. So... ⁓

either I was going to start drinking wine or I was going to start, I needed some kind of outlet. There was something that had to happen. So I turned to writing and I was like, okay, I got to start with something. it's, you know, 20 pages turned into 147 pages. And I said, and I got to do something with this. Well, once I finished it, I just wrote it. I truly enjoyed the process. I got through it, but I knew that I didn't know.

Dr Kelly Culver (10:14)
you

Jackie Haley (10:33)
what I should before I go into the publishing stage. And I thought, I got to get professional help. have to get somebody. So I hired an editor. She mutilated it. She just massacred it. It was horrific. And so it took me two years to get to a polished manuscript that I was comfortable submitting to a publisher. But going through that process,

was the big challenge, right? I was like, ⁓ I can write a story. no, I cannot write a story. And then I just kind of tackled one thing at a time. I broke it down into tasks. And I think that's one of the key components in resiliency is breaking it down and just answering one problem at a time, getting through each time.

and motivating yourself and seeing the challenges diminish and starting to reward yourself and go, okay, I can get this. I've got this. That first experience with the resiliency not only got me a publishing contract offer, but it got me an endorsement from the largest newspaper in my state for that first book. So it was truly a tremendous achievement, but it did take a lot. It was an experience. I still drink wine. Just saying. I'm going to throw that out there.

Jenn Quader (11:48)
I want to, I actually was gonna, I

was gonna comment on that first and just simply say that the fact that you were able to move into your in-laws without drinking wine speaks to really good in-laws, like to be honest. But I wanna dig into this though, because, and I think it's so important because what you've shared with the audience is resilience takes time. You know, it takes, yeah. And so my question though is you mentioned,

Dr Kelly Culver (11:55)
No.

Jackie Haley (12:01)
you

Yes.

Dr Kelly Culver (12:07)
you

Jackie Haley (12:12)
It really does.

Jenn Quader (12:17)
through that two years and through this time that you're putting it all together, and again, you had this great result at the end, the question you mentioned, you have to keep motivating yourself. And I wonder if we could dig into that a minute and go, how do you do that? How do you keep that engine running?

Jackie Haley (12:30)
Absolutely. Whoa.

You know, it's an absolute great question, And it's one of my key strategies in the book writing process is what is your motivation and keep it in front of you. The motivation for my first book, it was not to be a published book right in the beginning. Actually six months after, ⁓ boy.

Right about the time we moved in and I started getting this book put together, ⁓ I had a very, very close friend of mine. Our kids are four months apart. She was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And so...

That was my deciding moment. That's when I said, okay, you know what? I'm going to write this book and publish it and dedicate it to her because she deserves nothing less and we are going to make this happen. And so I told her about it. I named the main character after she started crying. Her mom came in, crying and it was a good moment. We were talking through it. She read the manuscript ⁓ and we were going to have a book launch party for her.

40th birthday and the book launch party. And so that was gonna be our big celebration. Well, she stopped talking about it after a while and unfortunately, we lost her a few months shy of her 40th birthday. But that was still the motivation that kept me going and said, I'm gonna do this because I'm gonna share Jess's story. She was the most amazing person. She's one of those people that just lit up the world.

walking into a room, she was always the life and just the sweetest and kindest person. Whenever you were talking to her, she was like your best friend. And those are the people that I get inspired by and get motivated by. So when it comes to overcoming those challenges, having those people around you that support you like that, as well as that motivation, those are two really great key components to resiliency in my world, at least.

Jenn Quader (14:35)
What a beautiful, beautiful story. And my heart both is inspired and aches for it. It's really touching. you've talked about something really important. The first thing I just want to repeat for our listeners is, what is your motivation? Keep it in front of you. And I really love that concept. But then beyond that, I think you spoke of something really important when you talked about doing this for Jess and doing this for her. And what that made me think of, wow, what is so powerful in that?

Jackie Haley (14:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jenn Quader (15:03)
connection between humans. And it's something that Dr. Kelly and I talk about a lot here on Resiliency, the podcast, which is the power of community. Communal resilience is so much stronger than single individual resilience. And so what you're talking about is you took your passion, your ability to write, and you channeled that through communal resilience by bringing that to inspiration. I wonder, Dr. Kelly, any comments from the seat of the Doctor of Resiliency?

Dr Kelly Culver (15:29)
Well, it's your well, first of all, Jackie, your story is really powerful. And I'll echo Janet's, you know, congratulations to getting that book out in the way that you did. And I think what I take from that is you said that it took two years to get that manuscript to where you felt it was publishable and your editor felt it was publishable. But what you were doing in that whole time is that you were persevering.

You were not going to let it go. You were not going to let Jess down. You just, you stuck at it because I think you had a dual motivation. Now I have a product that I want to publish and I want to go through that process, but I'm doing it to honor Jess. So there's that double track of, may lose people, but we keep them on the path with us, you know, as they help propel us forward. And I think that's a really powerful, that's really powerful.

Jackie Haley (16:28)
And I think one of those additional characteristics that I seem to have with my red hair is stubbornness. That helps me move forward. It is a Norwegian thing that I, yeah, and when I start something, I can't let it go. I've got to finish it. And yeah, it's pure stubbornness in many ways too.

Dr Kelly Culver (16:45)
Huh?

Jenn Quader (16:48)
Jackie,

have to tell you this since we know you have little ones. don't know how old they may be today, but I will tell you when parents tell me their kids are stubborn, I always say congrats because stubbornness is a very important part of resilience, really important.

Jackie Haley (16:57)
Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (17:01)
You

Jackie Haley (17:02)
It is. Yes,

yes. It might be a test of patience on the parents, but it is definitely pays off in the grown up stages. In the right way, yeah. It's so true, so true. Yeah.

Jenn Quader (17:11)
It absolutely does. You just got to channel that, channel that a little bit through. Exactly.

Dr Kelly Culver (17:21)
Yeah, so that's

two sides of the same coin. So stubbornness we're born with and patience is an acquired skill, which I am still acquiring.

Jackie Haley (17:29)
That's very true. And

I have learned so much from your insight and what you have to offer, Dr. Culver. If anyone is out there looking for that path to resiliency and needs the help, my goodness, they need to talk to you. And they need to listen to this podcast because it really truly brings you so many solutions that you can use daily. And I love that. So thank you.

Dr Kelly Culver (17:55)
Well, thank you, Jackie. And for God's sakes, call me Kelly. You know, yeah. Yeah, you do that. So now I have a question. You have transitions from writing fiction, which you've just told us about that journey of writing fiction, to empowering others to become authors through your dream to author ⁓ company.

Jackie Haley (17:59)
I'm just... back to Kelly. That's what I'll do.

Jenn Quader (18:00)
I'm Dr. Kelly.

Dr Kelly Culver (18:20)
So what made you shift your focus from telling your own stories to helping people like me tell theirs?

Jackie Haley (18:27)
You know, after I released my first book, I actually did receive ⁓ a number of people just reaching out to me asking, well, how did you start this? Or how did you get a publishing contract? Or what happened here? And so naturally, I'm just...

You know, I just started off with emails and it kind of grew to, hey, will you look at my manuscript or will you do this or will you do that? And it came to a point where I'm like, okay, this is a business because I'm taking a lot of time doing this, but I love it. And I really truly enjoy it because I know I'm helping somebody else get to that success level. And when we can all help turn around and help the next person in line, make that journey a little easier so they don't have two years of revisions and heartache and

craziness that is so much better so ⁓ I actually I I'm a faith-based person I feel like I got is steered me this direction and ⁓ I think in my third book

I was actually approached by a family to write that book. And I think that again, that was another indication that I need to help others tell their story. And so I was just trying to follow that. And I'm having so much fun, it should be illegal, but it is, it's a blast because we are just having a great time and the messages that are coming out are truly helping others. Yeah.

Jenn Quader (19:44)
you

Dr Kelly Culver (19:50)
And you talked about having that ⁓ family come to you and you writing their story to get their voice out in there. But it isn't just that. mean, one of the things I remember when you and I were talking one on one, ⁓ you're working with all kinds of different leaders, like heads of companies like Jen, for example, heads of companies who have this amazing story about themselves or their career or this thing that they have uncovered and discovered and what it is that they do. And you're helping that sort of cadre of people.

get their story out as well. ⁓ it's almost like you're sector agnostic. You're helping all kinds of people across all different sectors at various levels tell their story in a really way, in a really strong way. And I wanted to pick up on the success piece that you just talked about, that you like to see others be successful. can you talk to us a bit more about that? How does witnessing people's success contribute to your own sense of fulfillment and strength?

Jackie Haley (20:47)
Well, if my clients are success, it reflects upon my company and us as providing the service and helping out. But truly, ⁓ I guess I get the fulfillment and the success out of it just because...

I see the excitement, I see the passion that the people have. ⁓ We have worked with hundreds of writers in 15 states in the US and over seven countries across the world. We have seen so many people and to have stories that they have actually finally get out and they can hold their first copy and they're excited, they're smiling. I have a bank of pictures with my clients in their books as they came out.

and the endorsements that they receive and the emails that they get that say, changed my life by reading your book. I learned so much. I got this from there and now I know what to do. That just...

It helps me, even if I'm a little tiny piece of that progress, that is super fulfilling and it helps me think that I'm on the right track, I'm doing what I need to do. And it is not easy writing a book. ⁓ People have amazing backgrounds and expertise like you do Dr. Kelly. it's just a matter of how do we get it into a book that can be the problem, that can be the hard thing. And that's where we come in to just, we're just taking that.

magnificent motivation and inspiration and putting it into a book where people can actually get out and find it. And it's a bigger audience. So yeah, it's been wonderful. I hope I answered that question okay. If that's fulfilling enough.

Jenn Quader (22:32)
I can see the person smile. I feel like it's, I think you answered it really well last two when you said we're having so much fun, it should be illegal. Cause that speaks to the success and the fulfillment. And it's interesting, there's a great book and I can't think of the author, but the name of it is called Half Time. And it's kind of a short book. It's actually more faith-based as well. And the concept of it is that in the first parts of our career, we all have to climb. We all have to kind of put on masks and be people who we may be

Jackie Haley (22:42)
Yes.

Jenn Quader (23:01)
aren't in our entirely because we are growing in our professional career. But then at some point we reach what the author calls half time. And at that half time mark, we begin to look at how can our passion, what are we passionate about? How can that make a bigger ripple impact on the world? And I think that's what you're talking about, Jackie. Here you are, you're someone who you developed yourself with your editor and you figured out how to do it yourself, but then you thought, let me lean in on my own passion.

and let me open this out. And it's interesting too, and I wanna tie it back. You mentioned being a faith-based person and I connect with that, but I also connect with it because of any faith, regardless of what faith you're in, there is always some power that is moving through the person. And when it comes to releasing a book, I'm looking at my bookshelf over here, there's a whole bunch of books, right? But everyone has their own unique story. And sometimes,

When that power and that energy is trying to come through you and you want to tell that story, you reach a place where you're just too scared to do it. It's not what we were talking about earlier, which is kind of the obstacles. How do you get your brain right? How do you get yourself? How do you motivate yourself? This is like when we get to the word true vulnerability. How do you open, like crack yourself like an egg and let that story come out in a way that is compelling and that is real? Because there are books that just tell a story and then there are books

that explain and help you understand the story. So can you talk to us a little bit because being resilient and telling your story does, even coming on this podcast, Jackie, you're showing a lot of vulnerability by doing that. So can you talk about kind of the role of vulnerability and how you, not only, I'm not gonna say overcome it, because we're not overcoming it. How do you embrace it? How do you help people to see through that, to be vulnerable, become, to dream to be that author?

Jackie Haley (24:53)
Yes, ⁓ several different things and thank you for the question. ⁓

Vulnerability plays a big role in all of us whenever we are stepping to the plate to put a product, a service, our own mindset into the market for others to judge, ridicule, embrace, whatever it may be. But ⁓ having an offering, usually when we have people coming up to us going, want to write a book, they have one of three biggest obstacles that stop them from moving forward with their book. And that they have to be resilient again, you know, have to fight. First one is the know-how, lack of know-how.

They don't know how to start the story. They don't know what to do, what components, what makes it tick, what makes that book a complete book. Is it worthy of book? The second one is the von der Real von Oth.

⁓ Okay, now I can't talk. Vulnerability test, really. It's that lack of confidence. What do I have to say that hasn't been written in a book before? What do I have to offer? Why would anyone want to read me when they've got a hundred other books in the same concept? And then that lack of time, which, you know, that plays a big role as well. And we lean into that when we don't put it in a high enough priority. And that takes all three of these, take resiliency. You have to really open up

to that. But you were mentioning vulnerability. We have seven different mindset shifts and seven different strategies that we have our clients address and it's all about making sure that they understand because every barrier that they have, whether it's do we open up, do we give our perspective, do we offer what we have to offer into the market for someone else.

Is it worthy? All those questions in our mind, we have to, it's just a mindset, it's just a barrier. It's a mindset shift. We have to remove those. The only people that can remove them are themselves. So once you get rid of those, you are left with nothing but that road to success. You can motivate yourself, removing those barriers and starting. It's all about just starting.

Nothing has to be perfect. You know, we talk about resiliency a lot ⁓ in our coaching sessions as well. But in that effort to try and overcome the obstacles, a lot of us think that whatever we write, when we write a book, it's going to gospel right away.

It's absolutely not. We're gonna revise it. We're gonna massage those words. We're gonna make them better before anyone sees it. So no one should be afraid of starting a story because all it is right now is your thoughts, your main message, right? And so that first step...

getting that done, moving forward with it, you start seeing that vulnerability diminish because you're starting to see it come to life. And that's a true strategy in any project really. If you just start, see what you can do with it. Just start learning things. Knowledge is power. So I think that might be a great way and a great strategy to help fight that and work with that.

Jenn Quader (28:01)
I think it's brilliant and it really ties to, can't, Dr. Kelly's gonna know and I can't remember, but it's one of the major laws of the Earth, which is an object in motion stays in motion. Who did that, anybody? Yeah, so an object in motion stays in motion, and so what you're telling me is get yourself in motion, get started, write it, don't be afraid of that. so there is a, I don't know, the way I'm seeing it as a visual metaphor is, you know,

Dr Kelly Culver (28:11)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (28:26)
a gun firing off as you go on your race, you have to have something that helps you to start. And I think that is where you found a unique place in the industry because as someone myself who aspires to be an author, I know many others who aspire to that, I think that sometimes you need help. You need someone to shoot the gun and say, let's go, this is the time. One of the other things we kind of already talked about.

Jackie Haley (28:48)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (28:52)
the fact that the industry's crowded. We all know that. We know that there's lots of books out there. And so I think you've already spoken to that, which is to say, find your story and then work with someone who can help you tell it. But there's another word that comes to mind when I think of the publishing industry and the word is predatory. That often young authors, new authors can fall into traps. And there are things that those without that, you mentioned the know-how.

So I wonder if you could speak a little bit to any of our authors who may be listening, those who are hoping to get stories out. What can they do when they're looking at this crowded industry and they're trying to avoid anything predatory? What are the flags they should look for? Let's say green flags and red flags, you know?

Jackie Haley (29:38)
Yes, you know, ⁓ I'm glad you mentioned that the changes in the market because that has had a fundamental shift which has actually changed the way we watch out for things in the market. ⁓ Prior to COVID, for example, we had on average 400,000 titles published every year and it's quite a few books published annually. On average, post COVID, we are in the four million range of book titles published annually.

This came from that explosion of self-publishing companies as well as people quitting the corporate life, starting their own business, writing a book to do that, to help use that as a tool, a lead magnet, offering their expertise to show others what they can do. These have been big huge factors that have changed the market. So it used to be harder to publish, easier to market. Now it's easier to publish, harder to market because you have to get above the noise, above those other formulas.

titles that are published in that same year. ⁓ with that, the questions for red flags, things that you need to be aware of as you're entering in, deciding to write a book, you want to make sure first and foremost, AI is touching every industry. We all know this. It's coming up. It's changing every week. We are doing constant market research. So making sure that you're comfortable with what AI is doing.

I had a client actually have his entire book reproduced and sold on the market without his knowledge.

And he showed me side by side, there were just five words about every page that were changed. Same images, same everything, a little bit different title, and it's found on the market. It's unbelievable. But they discovered it was an AI company that was putting it together and producing it. These are the things we have to watch out for now. It's crazy. And then also, if you're putting in your book, I know a lot of people, I did a Fox News interview.

about

AI, I've done a couple of them actually, about how it really can change and it can take your information. So if you're plugging in and write me a book in John Grisham's voice and it spits out a book, it's using whatever somebody else's intellectual property to write that book for you. So you really have to protect yourself and watch what you're putting in AI as far as using it as a tool because it claims it and it puts

it in its bank of knowledge to use for the next person with that same question. So those are some of the beware on AI. It can be a great tool if you just use it for small questions. How do I state this? How do I use this? And I think if you break that down a little bit more, you're going to be able to take those pieces and put it into your book that will make it fundamentally yours and usable and helpful. ⁓

Dr Kelly Culver (32:38)
Cough

Jackie Haley (32:42)
The other things, there are so many publishing companies out there. So finding out, doing your due diligence, checking your reviews, checking the ratings, getting references. Any of those things are always helpful to really make sure that they're in your corner and they're a legitimate company. With online business today, it's exploded. It's hard to see some of that sometimes.

Jenn Quader (33:07)
Yeah, I'm kind of dying to ask, and this is a little, I guess, off script, but I kind of want to understand ⁓ when people are put, forgive me, what percentage of the people you're working with are publishing direct, like via, say, like an Amazon Kindle direct, and what percentage are going after one of those more of a third-party credibility publisher that's going to accept their manuscript and put it out through their world?

Jackie Haley (33:09)
Yeah.

getting about half and half right now in the market with my clients. I'm getting about half and half. We started a publishing company because I had a client ask me to. I never had that before. He was a former, he's a former congressman. kind of what congressman.

what he says, we're going to try and make it happen. Yeah, yeah, I have a current congressman I work with as well and ⁓ a gentleman that works at the Pentagon. have several clients in these positions. So we do want to help them in the best way possible because they do have a little time to be able to help them that way. But ⁓ getting that information to them so they are aware and have the right path. Some are fitted for self publishing and it's perfect.

Jenn Quader (33:55)
Yes, sir.

Jackie Haley (34:23)
I have ⁓ colleagues, authors that have sold 40,000 copies of their first book that they ever wrote and self-published. ⁓ We've got so much success coming through that channel. It's easier, but I highly recommend people getting an editor, making sure that it's polished because it really does play into the credibility of you as an author, especially if you're providing your own expertise. ⁓ But getting that out is a fantastic way. The stigma of self-published companies

is gone by the wayside. They used to go, well you couldn't get a traditional deal, so you're just doing self-publish. It must not be that good. That's gone. People only self-publish now. There are a lot of them that only do that. ⁓

There are some that are seeking agents for the traditional route, there are fewer because it takes so long to do that and you're selling your rights generally. So there are pros and cons to all of those processes, but the goal is to make sure it fits into the goal of the client and the author.

Dr Kelly Culver (35:27)
I want to come back around to something that both of you have just talked about for a minute, and it involves AI and this story. So you talk about helping people get their story out, whether it's a personal story, whether it's professional story, because someone else can learn from it, and it can help. That's building up that resilient community, Jen, that you mentioned earlier. ⁓ The thing about AI is not using AI to write your manuscript for you.

And I think a lot of people like there are a lot of AI programs that can do that for you. Now they can take as the example you gave, they can take your work, someone else's work and they can copy it and there's a new book come out. But for me, what that does is if you if you're outsourcing your thought process, outsourcing your intellect, and outsourcing your critical thinking and problem solving to AI to write your story, you haven't passed on any knowledge.

you haven't learned from that process. We learn when we write. And you're not doing any of that. There's no self-reflection. There's no self-learning. You're not changing yourself or changing other people when you're using that as the tool to produce something so that you can say, here, here it is. It's, yeah. ⁓

Jackie Haley (36:30)
Mm-hmm, that's true.

It's so true.

Jenn Quader (36:47)
Well, and what you're speaking to, Dr.

Kelly, that it is really, it goes back to what Jackie was talking about, which is the motivation. If I am motivated by, want to get as many books out there and get as many views and many, like, if I'm motivated by something that is very thin and shallow, then what I'm gonna get is thin and shallow. But what I think we're talking about here is power and impact and resilience. And in order to do that, I love what you're saying, don't outsource the thinking.

Dr Kelly Culver (37:04)
Yep.

Jenn Quader (37:17)
Certainly you can work with writers if you yourself are not the, you you want that or you can work with editors, but the thoughts need to be yours. And that I think goes back to the energy that's flowing through each of us. We each have a unique story to tell. It's not just about the words or it's about what is coming through. What is that communal lesson that we can learn together?

Dr Kelly Culver (37:39)
Exactly. It's like we are the vehicle for something powerful to come out. And Jackie works with you like that. You know, she's helping you learn that that's how that's the process. We can't fight the process. It's like if you're in the middle of grief, Jackie, you've had it, Jen, you've had it, I've had it. You can't sidestep it. You got to go through it. So you've got to walk through that process of writing and process of learning. So that's my deviation from the script to bring me back on on point.

Jackie Haley (38:07)
No, I love it. I love

it. It's so true, though. It really is. just, you have to, you have to go through that process and really experience it. I always worry because I have, I have children. I say children. One's 6'4 and the other 6'2 ⁓ in high school. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy. ⁓ But they are, you know, they...

Dr Kelly Culver (38:09)
You

You

Jenn Quader (38:26)
Tall boys or girls.

Dr Kelly Culver (38:27)
They're Vikings. ⁓

Jackie Haley (38:35)
they have their school assignments and they're going through spell check and things like that, but there are things that just say it this way. And I'm like, he's never gonna learn because he's already got this. All he clicks is a button. And I'm like.

I need my kids to know this because we're going to get that next generation. They're my grandkids. They're going to go, there's no button to push. Is this word spelled wrong? How is this going to work? So yes, it's concerning if we don't learn those fundamentals in the beginning. It really is.

Dr Kelly Culver (39:05)
Mm-hmm.

Jenn Quader (39:05)
Well,

I'll just, since we're still on this, I'll just say heard I was at a University of California at Irvine has a series called The Future Of, and they were doing The Future of Finance. ⁓ the guy said, the answer to any important question is it depends. And he was talking about the power of critical thinking and about how you have to teach students and I'd say authors and anybody listening to this podcast that wants to be resilient.

You have to question the status quo and you have to look at all of those things. And that really ties back to what Dr. Kelly is saying and what you're saying, Jackie. Don't rob yourself of the experience of looking at both sides and letting the inspiration get distilled through you because that's the power. And I think Jackie, you yourself are an artist. You had your story, but the power in your client's stories is not just you. Yes, you're helping them.

But the power in that congressman, for example, is his story, what he experienced. And so it really is about getting people comfortable and open enough that they can face that within themselves, ask themselves those questions, and not try to push that away. I think that's a really interesting point from both of you guys.

Jackie Haley (40:16)
And as a result, that confidence grows. And that really brings it to light. I mean, that brings it full circle because then they know, okay, I know I've got something to offer this market and I can move forward with it. And I just love that, yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (40:33)
So you're someone, Jackie, who prides yourself on being both a speaker and a writer. How can communication help us to become more resilient?

Jackie Haley (40:45)
asking questions. think knowledge is power. So finding out whatever you can about whatever topic or thing that you want to learn. ⁓ Just asking those questions, absorb the information, figure out how you can help others with it. ⁓ I think that is the biggest thing. Now I have two sons. I love them dearly, but obviously I am the minority in my household and boys don't tend to communicate as well as women do. ⁓

Dr Kelly Culver (41:08)
Ha

Jackie Haley (41:14)
you know, I'm just gonna throw that out there. It may not be in every case, but yes, where you're, you know, so we have those, those moments of those aha moments of, okay, that's how you took that. And so communication is, is key and vital in progress and moving forward.

Jenn Quader (41:16)
different.

Dr Kelly Culver (41:18)
Lightning strikes.

You

Jackie Haley (41:37)
learning and achieving. think once you know that you've got the knowledge base and you're communicating what you know, it's the foundation. It really is.

Jenn Quader (41:49)
I love it. And I'll comment too that I like that you brought the example of your sons. mean, first, there is a women are from Mars, men are from, or excuse me, women are from Venus, men are from Mars, and that's real. But I think that what I take from your answer is you gotta try. You gotta try. You gotta start talking, you've got to communicate with, and I take that in the authorship too. You have to write the first page, you have to seek out the editor, you have to try, and then the communication is the vehicle through which we reach understanding.

Jackie Haley (41:56)
⁓ it's a thing. All the things.

Jenn Quader (42:19)
Speaking of trying, I'm gonna ask, go ahead, sorry, yes.

Jackie Haley (42:20)
And

that's where you connect. Because at the end of the day, you're developing, you're reaching the relationship, you're building the trust, you're building the credibility. And these people start to begin, yes, I understand her. I understand what she's saying. This is great. I can connect with that. I can relate with that. And it grows from there.

Jenn Quader (42:24)
Yes.

Dr Kelly Culver (42:24)
Yes.

Jenn Quader (42:41)
You know, I hadn't thought about this before, Jackie, but I'm just gonna riff for just a minute and say, it's interesting because we always talk about building resilience and we talk about how it's an ongoing thing and it's consistent, we have to build it. I had never really thought of it, but like, as you build those connections, that is what's building your resilience. So for example, and I'm thinking of it again through the lens of like trust, building trust. If I work with you to put a book out, ⁓

our resilience together and getting through the first draft and getting through the second, we are developing a deeper connection which leads to deeper trust which leads to more resilience. So it's interesting how, I know we talk a lot about communal resilience, but to see it in this more tactical form, yeah, it really, Dr. Kelly, what do you think? Circle! It's the circle of resilience. Well, look.

Jackie Haley (43:21)
The journey, yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:24)
circle.

Jenn Quader (43:30)
Speaking of circles, I'm gonna circle back to something I thought was very interesting you said for our last question, and then we're gonna get into the fun part, which is the rapid question, so stay tuned. But I wanna circle back to something you said, was ⁓ everything changed after COVID, and it used to be that it was hard to publish and easy to market, and now it's easy to publish and hard to market. So I wanna give you a platform to market what's really important, which is your latest book. And your latest book, I will tell our readers again, is called Write Your Book.

Dr Kelly Culver (43:52)
Cough

Jenn Quader (44:00)
Let's get it done. And so Jackie, the floor is yours. Tell us about this book. Why should people read it? Why do they need to have it? Let us know.

Jackie Haley (44:01)
Yes.

Well, you know, like any book, this book is for a specific audience. This book is for people that are running into one of those three or all three of those obstacles of, want to write a book, but I don't know how to start. I don't know if my topic is worthy of a book or if anyone would want to know what I have to offer, or I just don't have the time. And it tackles those three obstacles to get people moving forward. it's a much, we have some of our program information in there because we

had such a success rate with our programs and our clients all over the world moving forward with their story and ⁓ I've got and I miss my New Zealand client because I love her accent and I used to be able to speak to her every couple weeks ⁓ but these wonderful people have these messages and just getting that out and tackling that that we start with that book because it's a great key it's a great and it's low cost it's a good introductory okay this is what

it takes to write the book. if they have that message, if they've thought about it, I've heard, I've thought about this book all my life, I've never, I've got it in my head.

This is to move it from your mind to paper, to get it in the computer or on paper or somewhere where you can actually start seeing your thoughts come into reality and into something that somebody else can actually connect with. And so that's what this book is about. Short, sweet and to the point. I am a very checklist deadline person. I come from the corporate world, the lobby association world. And yeah, we were like, let's get it done. That's what it's about. This is getting it done. Finally moving forward.

with it so all kinds of fun yes yes

Jenn Quader (45:53)
feel a wash of excitement as I hear about it.

You will have a

Dr Kelly Culver (45:56)
You

Jenn Quader (45:56)
new reader as soon as we finish the podcast.

Jackie Haley (45:58)
Thank you.

Well, I am so excited to get Dr. Kelly's book done and help her in any way possible. She's got amazing stories and education to provide and insight. So there are so many out there that have that. And I just, it's a lot of fun, but this will help you. This is a great tool.

Dr Kelly Culver (46:03)
⁓ yeah.

I just, I want to add, and I was talking to Jen and Jackie before we started recording the podcast. So I've had several coaching sessions with Jackie about writing a particular book called Navigation, Working Title Navigational Leadership. She's been phenomenal with me. And finally, one day she said to me, Kelly, I want you to go and write five pages on why a global CEO would read this book. Why do they care? And she scared me. And so I did. I went for a walk, came back, sat down and wrote five pages. I sent them to her.

and she got back to me and she said, I'm not changing a word. It's absolutely perfect. Now get it done. So I took that opening with her, you know, the help that she had given me, I took that opening and it was, I turned it into a speech which I delivered in London, England in December when we launched our new company. And that propelled us to start to get clients. So Jackie's theory, Jackie's model, Jackie's methodology works.

Jackie Haley (47:12)
many new clients did you get out of that? Nice. that's so wonderful. I love it.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:14)
for.

Jenn Quader (47:16)
Yes! So good.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:18)
See it works

now you just got to write the book but that's enough about me let's go back to Jackie.

Jackie Haley (47:23)
I love it! No, this is great! This is great! And that's the whole point. We could think about these things all day long, but it's a matter of doing it. And that's what separates the authors from the dreamers, from the writers. It's taking the time.

Jenn Quader (47:26)
We're getting it done, we're getting it done. Communal resilience.

Dr Kelly Culver (47:28)
Yeah, so I'm gonna

get it done. Yeah.

Ahem.

Jackie Haley (47:43)
to move forward. And that book helps you with that, but it really comes down to that mindset. You have to do it yourself. And again, if you are stubborn, use it. Use that stubbornness, that red hair that you might have. If you do, it's a fantastic tool. My parents wouldn't agree at that time, but now they do. They're good now.

Jenn Quader (48:06)
think it's such an important, resilient message. You have to get it done. It's on you. Like we've talked about communal, we've talked about what people can push up, but I think if you boil it right down, and I love what you said, that's the difference between the dreamers and, you said the dreamers and the authors, I'd say maybe the dreamers and the doers, either way, those who get stuff done, they do it. And it's on you. You know, when I say you, I mean each of us, obviously. But yeah, that's, nah, that's right, Dr. Kelly, I wanna see that book.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:11)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Haley (48:11)
Yes.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:22)
The doers.

Jackie Haley (48:22)
Yes, exactly.

Yes. Yes.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:30)
No, you're looking at me.

Jackie Haley (48:33)
You've got

it.

Jenn Quader (48:36)
I'm ready to promote it.

Jackie Haley (48:37)
She's gonna, yes, absolutely.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:41)
Okay, we're gonna move into wrap-up our questions.

Jackie Haley (48:47)
I love it. See, you're surrounded by red hair. Look at this.

Jenn Quader (48:48)
Jackie, are you ready? We're ready.

Dr Kelly Culver (48:51)
surrounded

by redheads today.

Jackie Haley (48:54)
you

Dr Kelly Culver (48:57)
Even our executive producer has red hair. You just can't see him right now.

Jackie Haley (49:01)
Now

we're good.

Dr Kelly Culver (49:03)
I love it. Okay. huh. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Jenn Quader (49:04)
Right, and stubborn as a mule.

Jackie Haley (49:11)
It's always a good time. You're always good time. Yes!

Jenn Quader (49:13)
It is.

Dr Kelly Culver (49:14)
Jackie, what

is your favorite TV or TV show or movie that makes you feel resilient?

Jackie Haley (49:22)
that makes me feel resilient. You might laugh at me. I am a big comedy fan. ⁓ The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is probably one of the funniest darn shows. I absolutely love it and it really truly does resonate resiliency.

Dr Kelly Culver (49:24)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Haley (49:42)
of a female going into a male-dominated industry, even working. mean, just, all of the things, all of the barriers. And ⁓ boy, I just, couldn't get enough. I was so sad when that show ended. It is a fantastic show.

Dr Kelly Culver (49:47)
Mm-hmm.

What a great pic.

Jackie Haley (50:01)
Yeah.

Jenn Quader (50:03)
Really good one.

Dr Kelly Culver (50:04)
Yeah,

so now here's the really, you know, here's the test. What's the book that's made you feel resilient?

Jackie Haley (50:12)
Oh, the book. I'm a little old. I'm a little old school. I am a big Jane Austen fan, I would go with one. I mean, Pride and Prejudice is a big one for me. I just, I've read that several times.

Dr Kelly Culver (50:14)
Yeah, I changed the question. What's the book?

Jenn Quader (50:17)
Yeah you did.

Dr Kelly Culver (50:27)
Mmm.

Jackie Haley (50:34)
again, resiliency. think I'm apparently I have this thing for powerful, independent, stubborn women that I absolutely relate to and love because they're, you know, they're kicking butt and taking names and they don't care what anybody else thinks. And that I love that. So yeah, it's empowering.

Dr Kelly Culver (50:56)
That's a great choice. I go back to Jane Eyre every now and then I'll read I'll reread Jane Eyre just for the same thing. Okay, so now I'm going back on script. What's your favorite song that makes you feel resilient?

Jackie Haley (51:00)
yes! Yep.

Yes.

⁓ One of my go-to, I have several. I am a music listener, just, I love it, but Katy Perry, Rise. I like that one.

Dr Kelly Culver (51:17)
You

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Haley (51:24)
Just recently I was listening to it. okay, when I get to a point where I don't know how I'm gonna handle a certain situation, ⁓ music or something that motivates me is truly a great tool that works for me. You have to find what works for you to get through your challenges and things like that, but those tools really can change the way you think and feel. Music is one of those tools for me. So Katy Perry probably would be one of my go-tos that I wouldn't, that I...

You know, no matter what, you're gonna rise. Yeah. Yes! Roar! Yes! She has a number of them. Yeah.

Dr Kelly Culver (51:56)
I love it. And roar. Rise and roar, right? Rise and roar. Exactly.

Jenn Quader (51:58)
Rise and roar.

Dr Kelly Culver (52:03)
No, she's really good. What's one of the last things that made you laugh out loud?

Jackie Haley (52:08)
You guys, you're fabulous! I love this! You appreciate my appreciation for wine. I mean, you understand. You get me.

Jenn Quader (52:21)
That's never been the answer. Jackie, high five! We made you laugh out loud. I dig it.

Jackie Haley (52:26)
That's right!

Dr Kelly Culver (52:28)
Best day ever.

Jenn Quader (52:30)
Best day.

Jackie Haley (52:30)
you

Dr Kelly Culver (52:33)
And what's a question that you would like to leave for future guests?

Jackie Haley (52:33)
It's so great.

If a question, a question.

Dr Kelly Culver (52:41)
Hmm

Jackie Haley (52:45)
If you're passionate, if you've had that idea in the back of your mind to write a book, what are you waiting for?

Jenn Quader (52:56)
I have to go answer that one for myself. Great question, Jackie.

Jackie Haley (52:57)
Right? What are you waiting for? It's time.

It really is. It's time. Because once you get that book out, you're gonna go. And all of my clients, with exception of I think two, Kelly, you might be one of those just because you haven't gotten through any, we haven't done a lot of work yet together, ⁓ but ⁓ have gone on to write multiple books because they know.

This experience is worthy of doing. It's worth it to get that message out and share. So what are you waiting for? Yeah, that would be my question. Was it? I'm coming. It was a good question. Yeah.

Jenn Quader (53:32)
Love it. Great question. All right, Jackie, ⁓ I one question for you that was

left by a past guest. ⁓ And it's very relevant to you, so it works out really well. So here it is. What is one book that has helped you to become who you are today?

Jackie Haley (53:53)
I mean, there are so many. I'm a fiction fan, but I mean, there are so many wonderful nonfiction books out there. Boy, that's really a hard one, Chen. You're putting me on the spot. I would say, if I had to...

think of one I would probably go to. I'm just picking one. I'm just gonna pick one. James Patterson, any of the James Patterson, Long Came a Spider, ⁓ any of those, that series would be good too. Any of those fast-paced fiction novels because that is how I started writing. I started writing fiction and I'm a very quick reader, or writer.

as far as the action scenes. So that style I catered to and I started seeing that in my own voice when I started writing and that's kind of what kickstarted this entire thing. So I would say maybe just those fast-paced fiction writers like James Patterson. It's terrible answer but it's a good answer but I fumbled. You made me think a little too much.

Jenn Quader (55:00)
Very cool, I like that vibe also. It's not a terrible, it's a real

answer, but I'm gonna also add, because I'm the promotion person on the call, but it's the truth. I think I would venture that there are two other books that really changed your life, and I wanna remind our readers what they're called. They are called Crystal Beach and Truce Island. Those are the two first fiction books that Jackie read. And then there's another one.

Dr Kelly Culver (55:16)
you

Jackie Haley (55:24)
Yes!

Jenn Quader (55:27)
that's called Brenda's Wish. So I will recommend that in addition to Mr. Patterson, I think Ms. Haley has some great writing for our audience to listen to.

Jackie Haley (55:36)
Thank so much. Thank you. It's been wonderful.

Dr Kelly Culver (55:37)
here here.

Jenn Quader (55:38)
Of course. Now, on that

note, Jackie, if any listeners in the Resiliency the Podcast community want to get a hold of you, if they want to learn more about your company and about what you do, please tell us how can they find you? How can they find your company and how can they get in touch?

Jackie Haley (55:54)
be great. So they can email me directly at Jackie J.A. C.K. I.E. at dream to author that's T.O. not the number dot com. So Jackie at dream to author dot com or they can check out the website dream to author dot com and just see what yes there are so many things there are just so many things you can for for all stages of writing and we'd love to help.

Jenn Quader (56:11)
Beautiful dream to author. ⁓ and what was it Jackie?

So exciting. Well, Jackie Haley, thank you. An award-winning author who is changing the world person by person. A reminder to everybody to check out dreamtoauthor.com. like each week, we thank you. Our listeners in resilience, we are so grateful to each of you for being here. Thank you from myself, Jen Quater. You can find me online, J-E-N-N-Q-U-A-D-E-R. You'll find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, all the fun places.

and also my company, the smartagency.com. My wonderful, brilliant, amazing co-host, the first Doctor of Resiliency, Ms. Dr. Kelly Culver. You will find her on LinkedIn and on Instagram and also at theculvergroup.ca. And ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Thanks for being here. It's so important to us that we are continuing the stories of resilience that we are helping you. If you like what we're doing, please give us a like, follow us on YouTube.

Dr Kelly Culver (56:58)
Ha ha ha ha.

Jenn Quader (57:16)
Keep tuning in. We love having you with us and we love this resilient journey. Thank you all. Be resilient, be strong. See you next time.

Jackie Haley (57:24)
Thank you so much for having me. This is wonderful. See you.

Jenn Quader (57:28)
Thanks Jackie, bye.

Dr Kelly Culver (57:29)
Bye.