The Transformative Power of Expressive Arts with Elizabeth Tobias
Welcome to Resiliency the Podcast, the place to find stories, strategies, and inspiration on how to embrace change, overcome challenges, and redefine resilience in today's ever evolving world. I am Jen Quater, a global communications expert and CEO of a company called The Smart Agency, and I'm joined by the world's first doctor of resiliency and international business consultant, doctor Kelly Culver. Our show brings together a diverse group of individuals who inspire, educate, and motivate our audience to find their own inner strength in everything from the minutia of everyday life to world altering problems. Now, we wanna share what they have learned to help everyone build their resilience, overcome hardships, positively impact their communities, and ultimately, help the world at large. Now today, we have a special, special show for you.
Jenn Quader:We are welcoming an amazing woman as our guest, miss Elizabeth Tobias. Elizabeth has over thirty years of experience in the arts and culture sector, and twenty years of that in mental health, wellness, and personal transformation. She holds a master of arts in psychology and a postgraduate professional diploma in expressive arts therapy. She also holds certificates in mindfulness and yoga. She is the recipient of numerous awards, including a learning innovation fellowship from the National Science Foundation, a Durfee ARC grant and awards for her short documentary, Survivor, ninety eight second stories.
Jenn Quader:Elizabeth is a TEDx speaker recognized around the world and also a highly experienced global arts and culture maker who specializes in creating consciousness raising exhibits, programming, and events that inspire resiliency, creativity, communication, and connection. Please give me a hand in welcoming miss Elizabeth Tobias.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I have I have a question for Elizabeth. You know, we are a global podcast. Jen is in LA. I'm in Canada, just outside Toronto at the moment. And so I have a question for you, Elizabeth.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Where in the world are you today?
Elizabeth Tobias:Where in the world I am today is in the beautiful La Jolla, California.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Excellent. And you know this podcast is all about resilience. So I'm curious, what does resilience mean to you?
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh my god. We're starting with the easy question. Thanks.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Starting Yeah.
Elizabeth Tobias:Starting soft. You know, I there's so many ways to to see resilience. And for me, for my journey, for my life, what resilience for me has been staying open. It's been trying new things and not getting stuck in one way of doing things. I have been very fortunate in my time on this earth to have discovered so many incredible resources, so many incredible communities and friends and and groups that I have aligned with over the years.
Elizabeth Tobias:And so I feel that part of my resilience journey has been this accumulation of resources, of putting together different circles, different mindsets, different places I can go so that when I am stuck or unsure or not sure where to go next that, you know, I I have this, this wealth of places to turn. The other factor that has been so important, and this has taken me a long time to understand, is time. Time is resilience for me because it's not obvious in the present moment that that things are going to get better or that they're going to shift, that there will be a silver lining perhaps down the road. But I have learned that when I give it time and patience, that things really do, work out and become clear and that they do transform. So those are my my two main points, our time and resources, accumulating resources.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Thank you. That is really, really, really insightful. And and, the thing about patience, patience is an acquired skill. We are not born with patience. So congratulations on learning that at the moment now.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Jen, you have the exciting part now.
Jenn Quader:I do. And, actually, I I wanna say, you know, Elizabeth, I just love what you just said. I think I resonate with that patience also. I'm someone who thinks that everything should have happened yesterday, and, I've really had to work on that in my own resilience practice. But Elizabeth, I heard you say two things that are are super important.
Jenn Quader:The first is you talked about always trying new things, and I think that, that's a really amazing way to build resilience. And the second thing you talked about was resources, and that really touches my heart because that's exactly what we want to do with this podcast, is bring resources to people to help them understand. And one of the, the new things that you did recently is you gave a TEDx talk in Paris. And I wanna ask you, had you ever given a TEDx before? What what brought you to this big goal, Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Tobias:Well, you know, I think that giving a TEDx was, always a dream of mine since the TEDx format was introduced, but I had no idea what I could possibly talk about or what I could share, and it didn't occur to me that I could talk about my life and my journey and myself. And it was interesting because I don't know how all of you relate to this, but from the time that I sort of threw my my, you know, my name in the hat to be part of this, series to the time I was chosen, I from what I thought I was gonna talk about to what I ended up talking about completely transformed. And Mhmm. I found that the more personal that it became, that the more I shared about my story and my journey, the more it related in a more in a larger sense, in a more universal sense. It wasn't for me, it wasn't giving facts.
Elizabeth Tobias:It wasn't giving a lecture like I would at a university. It was just being myself and telling my story and how I got to where I was. And so I'm so grateful and so honored for the opportunity to do it and to myself for for having the courage to take the call and to go for it. And, I'm I'm just so I'm so glad that I did because I grew so much in this process, and it was a great opportunity to meet you and and to connect with other incredible new friends. So thank you.
Jenn Quader:We feel the same. I mean, I I think, again, you you touched on community, and, one of the things that we all spoke about having, worked together on that TEDx event in Paris is just what a connection we all felt. And, Elizabeth, I think what you just talked about, which is sharing and being vulnerable with your own personal story, that is one of the most important tools of resilience is being able to to get open and share those things. So I would like to, ask if you would be so kind as to allow our beautiful audience here at Resiliency the podcast to hear your TED Talk from Paris. Could we introduce the stage and allow you to share those stories with us today?
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh, I would be so honored. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing my story, and I really hope it offers some resilience and hope and, comfort to anybody who's listening.
Jenn Quader:We are really excited to let our audience and listeners hear this beautiful speech of yours. Audience, I do want to let you know and give you a bit of a trigger warning. As Elizabeth mentioned, she is being very open and vulnerable in this talk. And so you will hear some things that that could be a trigger emotionally. And equally, you will hear some things that'll be really deep and inspiring.
Jenn Quader:So with that, I would like to turn us over to miss Elizabeth Tobias and her TEDx talk.
Elizabeth Tobias:When I was five, I was a victim of sexual abuse by a family friend. I was so ashamed and humiliated by what happened to me, that I didn't tell anybody about it for many years. Growing up, I only heard whispers of the unspeakable tragedies my Jewish grandparents endured. They were survivors of pogroms and the holocaust, and lost much of their families. They never spoke about what happened to them, and we weren't allowed to speak about it either.
Elizabeth Tobias:That was how they coped, by burying the traumas of their past. Those unspoken intergenerational traumas led to depression and mental illness. My mom was barely able to function, and when my parents' marriage ended in a bitter divorce, she was left a single mom of three, overwhelmed, and checked out. We were basically left to fend for ourselves, but as kids, we weren't prepared for that. My brother came out as a member of the LGBTQ community, and my mom had a hard time accepting his queer identity.
Elizabeth Tobias:My brother fell into depression and substance abuse. And four days before my thirteenth birthday, my brother died by suicide. When I lost my brother, a part of me died with him. I was so distraught. And, of course, understandably, my birthday was ruined.
Elizabeth Tobias:I didn't have any kind of support, so I internalized my feelings and escaped into my imagination as my way of coping. This is when I unknowingly discovered the power of imagination, and it saved my life. For over twenty years, I have been creating community art experiences that help others find hope and healing through hardships and trauma. I'm an artist and an expressive arts therapist. In expressive arts, we awaken the senses and the imagination to help people create their path forward through life's challenges.
Elizabeth Tobias:In my sessions, we focus on exploration and play. Whether it's with paint, clay, drums, or any art material, We just try new things to get out of your comfort zone. So we're gonna try a little bit of this process together to help you awaken your imaginations. So please close your eyes and just take a comfortable breath. Please do a body scan.
Elizabeth Tobias:This means you're gonna scan your body from the top of your head down to your toes just to notice the sensations in your body right now. Now keeping your eyes closed, tune into your imagination. When I say resilience, what do you see? Does it have a shape or color? Is it big or small?
Elizabeth Tobias:What do you hear? Is it loud or quiet? Now holding on to that awareness, please bring your attention back to the room. Open your eyes, and if it feels good for you, take a nice stretch.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Resilience.
Elizabeth Tobias:Why are we talking about it? We're all grappling with complex existential challenges like the climate crisis, inequity, and unrest, leaving many of us feeling overwhelmed or confused. How do we thrive in times like this? According to the World Health Organization, two hundred and eighty million people are struggling with depression. What can we do?
Elizabeth Tobias:Expressing yourself will help you create your path forward. When you engage your senses and your imagination, you discover new ways of doing things. You find your strengths, and you cultivate new forms of resilience. Creating didn't just awaken my resilience. It really was the fabric that held me together.
Elizabeth Tobias:I grew up in California in the nineteen seventies, and the arts were experimental. I was into events called happenings, where the art was about the process and not the product. Even as a kid, I understood that this was groovy and different and cool, and I knew that's what I wanted to do. It also helped me to imagine a way out of the turmoil of my life. I imagine myself living among creatives in an art factory, like my idol, Andy Warhol.
Elizabeth Tobias:I even had ideas for experimental films, like an eight hour movie of me just sleeping. By high school, I was determined to become an artist. And it was my favorite TV show, Dynasty, that inspired me to make the bold move to study in Paris. In August of nineteen eighty six, I bought myself a one way ticket on TWA to study at the American College in Paris. I will always remember the fear and excitement I felt as I boarded that flight alone to head out into the world.
Elizabeth Tobias:And I had never felt so alive. In Paris, I created my first art happenings. I was co editor of the Paris Atlantic Journal of Poetry, and I organized poetry readings for expats and students like you in the Grand Salon on Avenue Bosque. After so many years of being silent, I finally had the chance to tell my stories, And I learned that by holding a safe and courageous space, others could too. Fast forward to my thirties.
Elizabeth Tobias:I was living in Los Angeles showing my work in galleries, and I was steadily building my art career. Along the way, I earned a master's in psychology and certificates in yoga and mindfulness. I became a new mom in 02/2008, right as the global financial crisis hit. When my neighbors lost their home, I created the cupcake project. I traded homemade cupcakes for handwritten stories on index cards that became part of a growing community installation about economic disparity.
Elizabeth Tobias:What started on the streets of Los Angeles, expanded to major art institutions over about two years. This was the first immersive project that I created that blended art, advocacy, and healing. Creating a space for people to be able to express their stories during such a difficult time offered them a sense of hope and comfort. My last project of this period was the closet disco memorial, A tribute celebrating my brother's life and his legacy as a gay rights activist, and beloved disco DJ. This piece also gave me the chance to tell my brother how much I loved him and missed him, and was my way of saying goodbye.
Elizabeth Tobias:This was a turning point for me. All of my experiences, the good and the bad, and everything I had created up to this point, helped me to see my purpose. I wanted to help people transform their lives through the arts. But I needed to understand the science behind art and healing, and this is what led me to my training in expressive arts therapy. Putting words to feelings can be really hard, but when you awaken your senses, you find a very gentle and natural way of getting in touch with your feelings and emotions.
Elizabeth Tobias:Creating helps you discover how to make something. When you awaken your imagination and you work in the art studio, you don't have a plan. You just begin creating. You discover how to make art. This is what we call poesis.
Elizabeth Tobias:So when you go into the art studio without a plan and you start creating, you just make one move, and then another, figuring it out as you go. And believe it or not, this process actually helps you become more comfortable with change and uncertainty, because in this way, you're just playing and having fun, and not worrying about anything. Sometimes in life, we want quick fixes to problems, but that's not always possible, and we need to learn to be okay with that. I had to learn to be okay with that. My father died during the pandemic.
Elizabeth Tobias:And on the day of his funeral, I was diagnosed with incurable blood cancer. I really like, I can't there's no words. I was overwhelmed and in shock, and I did not know what to do. So I turned to my expressive arts community. And together, we laughed, and we cried, and we danced, and we drew.
Elizabeth Tobias:A word in one of the drawings spoke to me. Patience. It reminded me to stay in the present moment, not worry about the future, and just to trust the creative process. When I did that, I realized that the strength I was looking for wasn't out there. It was in here.
Elizabeth Tobias:I connected with my true resilience. Thankfully, my condition is stable now. And I know that life's uncertainties will keep coming. When you immerse yourself in the creative process, you tune in to your knowing and your wisdom. This is the foundation of our resilience.
Elizabeth Tobias:I didn't know what I was looking for until I found it. If that five year old little girl could speak to me right now, she would say, happy birthday, because today, March 23, is my 50 birthday. Alright. Now please come back to your breath and your imagination. When I say resilience now, what do you see?
Dr. Kelly Culver:What do you feel?
Elizabeth Tobias:What do you hear? If it could speak to you right now, what would it say? Never stop asking, never stop imagining, and never stop creating.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Elizabeth, thank you for sharing your TED Talk with us. I was reliving that with you. You know? We were it was like we were back in Paris together, the sensations, the full awareness, and your birthday. I've forgotten all about your birthday.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So we need to have another little happy celebration about your birthday. Just before we listen to your TED talk, you said that you talked about the journey of how you created it, and that the more personal it became, the more impactful it became. And it was a journey for you. So I have a question. It's been a couple of months now since you gave your TED Talk.
Dr. Kelly Culver:How has that changed your life?
Elizabeth Tobias:I had such an incredible journey preparing for the TED Talk. I feel like the preparation for the TED talk needs to become a TED talk. And I don't know if you feel the same way, but that in itself was like, you know, such a such a personal journey, the highs and the lows and the doubt, and the breakthroughs, and and and the whole process. And so now that I have, a couple of months since this has happened, something that makes me very happy about this podcast is that I do feel like I got to reclaim my birthday. And my birthday has been a, you know, there's a there's a something called anniversary syndrome.
Elizabeth Tobias:And for people who have gone through a catastrophic loss or or a loss, there's a our nervous systems are attuned to that date within us. Whether or not we're looking at a calendar or a clock, we know when this time of year approaches. And so since I was just such a young girl, my birthday has been such a sad time of year for me. And I noticed, like, with my daughter, I didn't even think of this until I did this, prepared for this talk, that I have these crazy over the top birthday parties for my daughter every year, like, every year is, like, crazier than the next year. And I finally figured it out.
Elizabeth Tobias:It's like I I've gotten to give her what got taken away from me as a young person. And so doing this talk on my birthday really meant everything to me, and it was reclaiming my joy, reclaiming my spirit, and reclaiming my life. And as much as I will always honor that time and always honor my brother's memory, which lives within me every single minute of the day, I got to have that back for myself. And that meant that really was the most transformational, one of the most transformational aspects of this of this journey for
Jenn Quader:me. A beautiful story of resilience and and self directed resilience, you know, that you and and I like how in your your talk, you talk about how you go in to create art and you don't have a plan. You just create. And I think that all of us and and it sounds like too, Elizabeth, as as you approached this, you knew you were gonna do a TEDx, but you didn't specifically have a plan. You allowed it to unfold and how beautiful that it it brought you back to that to, redefining your own birthday.
Jenn Quader:Now I wanna dig a little bit more into that because a lot of our listeners, they too have gone through challenges in their lives, and and perhaps they have had difficulties finding that resilience. And something that struck me this time, Elizabeth, that I don't think I I quite really took in when I first heard it is that you were 13 years old, or really 12, about to be 13, when your brother took his own life. And and, I mean, the the the feeling around that, you know, I think it is so deep and relatable. And then the fact that you then turned that around even within your family circumstance at the time and found that resilience, I wanna the question I wanna frame for you and for our audience is, how has dealing with something that tragic at that critical time in your life, how has it taught you to face those other challenges you mentioned as a lesson to those who might be listening?
Elizabeth Tobias:I thought, a lot about this. You know, what happened to me as a result of this loss that I went through at such a young age? And, you know, I don't wanna oversimplify it and overstate that it was just like, well, you know, boom, I got resilience. It was a real life journey that I went through, and there's been stages and phases of my life. But, you know, one thing that I can say is that for me, pain is a great motivator.
Elizabeth Tobias:And being uncomfortable and not finding my peace motivated me to look, to search, to to find, to seek, to go and go and go because there just were there was a place inside of me that was that was not allowing me to enjoy my life. And there was a peace inside of me that was, that felt broken. And I really just, once I was older, a little bit older, in my twenties, I was really able to go on to a very profound healing journey that started with accidentally going to see, oh, I don't wanna cry. I cry a lot. But I went with a a dear friend of mine.
Elizabeth Tobias:He invited me just to come along with him to a meditation. And, oh, here he goes again. I'm crying.
Jenn Quader:Crying is always allowed on Resiliency the podcast.
Dr. Kelly Culver:That's right.
Elizabeth Tobias:It's okay. It's okay. But I, I went to go meet Amma, who's known as the hugging saint. And it was just like a moment where I just got to see the love inside of me and the love in the world and to see goodness on such a global scale. I get open to my consciousness in a way that I will never I will never be able to describe what happened to me when I got my hug.
Elizabeth Tobias:But that was the beginning of the journey where I just believed in love, and I saw that it was okay. I had to be so protective of myself for so long, and I had to be so tough and get through so much. So even though I had done great things and I had gone to study in Paris and I had accomplished, wonderful things and was starting to create art shows, I just did not feel the love inside of me. That's that was just too protected. So from that point forward, everything changed, and I just trusted.
Elizabeth Tobias:I trusted the world. I trusted life. I trusted things a little bit more. And I was able to open up on a soulful level, on a consciousness level to go forward and to learn. And what I learned that was by being of service, by giving back, by sharing with others who had gone through difficult experiences or who were going through difficult experiences, that that was the most healing for me.
Elizabeth Tobias:And so I have had clients, I've had children that I worked with who have lost their brothers, friends who've lost their brothers, to suicide or family members or situations that they've gone through, and I am not afraid of going into those spaces with them. I can meet people where they are with love and compassion, and people can share anything with me. And I understand because I have been in those caves and those dark caves where it doesn't feel like there's light. And I have seen through, and I don't need to be corny or to say, like, cliche things, but to to have the patience, to have the grace, and to step through that cave and to find the light and the love on the other side has just really inspired me to hold space for others who are going through the same thing.
Dr. Kelly Culver:There is something more powerful and better on the other side. And you've taken your experience, and it's now become your superpower in how you're helping others on their journey. I love the fact that you were talking about the transformation that you yourself were able to go through on your birthday in Paris and reclaim that space in a way that isn't bad. It doesn't mean anything, you know, anything negative in that way. It's just like you're able to celebrate in a different way and on a different level.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What I'm struck by, which I find really interesting, and I'd like to hear a little more, and I think it comes out of your cupcake project, you use expression and imagination and curiosity to help people build their resilience, help them learn how to trust themselves and their inner voice. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and how that in in in and of itself helps you stay resilient?
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh, thank you so much for asking that question. I love sharing about this process and this journey. You know, I had, shared a little bit about this awakening and this experience that I had when I met, Ama, the hugging saint. And that got me on a a wonderful path, that led me to then, my pursuit of my graduate degree in spiritual psychology. And then as part of my thesis, diving into mindfulness and yoga.
Elizabeth Tobias:Those were my thesis projects and finding heart and soul in all of that, and yet something was missing. And I had to keep searching. I had to keep searching. I was a creative person. I was an artist.
Elizabeth Tobias:And and those practices didn't allow me to practice art as part of the healing. And so my search continued for my my way, my path. And it was through that that openness and that desire to keep finding that I found expressive arts therapy and my training in that in that field. And that's when everything came together, and I was able to learn how to facilitate through the arts, the healing and the and the profound transformation that, that people seek, you know, whether they're just improving their day to day lives or helping strengthen their marriage or their families or going through a profound loss. I mostly work with children who have gone through loss or are in, you know, very difficult situations.
Elizabeth Tobias:And I think that's because it resonates with me because as a child, I know what it was like to lose my innocence. Now, I had been sexually abused by when I was five years old, and so there was already a significant loss of innocence that I experienced from that. My mother struggled with mental illness and didn't take care of us. We had to take care of ourselves, and I struggled through that. And so working through the arts is so powerful, so transformational, so empowering, and yet so simple that people almost overlook how truly significant it is because the power of our imaginations, the power of our minds to create metaphor, to create stories, to imagine things is our power to imagine new possibilities, to see things a new way from what we have gone through.
Elizabeth Tobias:And the other part of it is that when you've gone through hardships, you can tend to shut down. You don't feel good. You know, you might you might develop some somatic, symptoms, like, I don't know, just feel a little shut down. And the physicality of the art making process, combined with the honesty and the vulnerability and the creativity, it is just so powerful. It is so powerful.
Elizabeth Tobias:And so I experienced a feeling of really coming home, of settling into something that felt like my home. And so for me, the arts have a power that I'd like to really share with as many people as I can because it's within all of us, and you don't need a lot of money, and you don't need a guru, and you don't need a you you need to just trust yourself. You need some prompts. You need some exposure and some opportunities, but you can do this yourself and in community all over the world. It's available to everybody, and that's what I love about it.
Elizabeth Tobias:It's an equalizer, and it brings not just one person but communities together.
Jenn Quader:Elizabeth, I'm so inspired by how you found your own resilience and now teach that resilience through this artistic expression. And something that really struck me both in in in your TEDx and also just now is that what you talked about through your experience, and I wanna thank you for it, by the way, for being so vulnerable and open and telling us about going to visit the hugging saint, because those are moments of magic in life. And what I heard you say is that your love was too protected. You had buried it down. And I think that's something that, from my reading and understanding, that victims of sexual abuse, victims of other tragedies, experience.
Jenn Quader:And so what I wanna point out as to our listeners who are thinking about resilience is that really there is kind of a two pronged process. You have to heal yourself and then you can help others. And I think that you being brave enough to go through that. And then I'm gonna say one more thing, and that is you mentioned sitting in the discomfort. And I think that's such an important piece.
Jenn Quader:And I wonder if we could just discuss that before we go into kind of a next question. If we could talk a little bit about the discomfort of life, and how you sit in it. And my example would be, you know, when people take a cold plunge, they don't warm up the water first. And so, how can we think about, as experts in resilience, the three of us, Jen Quater, Doctor. Kelly Culver, and Elizabeth Tobias, Could we, you know, talk a little bit about how sitting in discomfort, how taking, you know, taking those risks can bring us to our own healing, which can then open up the ability to be of service to others as Elizabeth has through arts.
Jenn Quader:What do you guys think?
Elizabeth Tobias:As I said, I was very protected. I I was very guarded with my authenticity, for a long time. And once I had this nudge, this embrace, I was able to just, open up some of those layers of protectiveness and in that space, sit in the discomfort and again in a whole new space. And I sat in that discomfort for quite a few years with, with going back again and again and again to to many of many retreats and many events. And because I was able to be in that safe space, it just started to the the layers started to unpeel.
Elizabeth Tobias:Now sitting in the discomfort, nobody likes it. I don't like it. You don't like it. Who likes it? It it it's not it doesn't feel good.
Elizabeth Tobias:But what it did teach me was that patience and that understanding because I did get to to discover this love and this healing through this that it's okay. It's going to be okay. Now with that said, and to be responsible and conscientious as a practitioner, I am trained. You know? I I didn't just go to therapy.
Elizabeth Tobias:I wanted my degree. I wanted education. I wanted all of the resources available to me so that I understood on the on the most complex levels how this all worked, what I could do, and how I could start to learn to help others. So what I'm saying is, you know, if you're feeling bad and going through something and making space for it, have support, have resources, have help. Please don't, fall into a dark cave on your own.
Elizabeth Tobias:Stay open to having support and help and resources. And there are so many wonderful channels out there. And, And I am so thankful that I was able to find all of the resources that I did, and the friend groups, and the circles that I was able to come into once this journey started for me. And so time and again, I've sat in the discomfort, and and the discomfort keeps coming. It never stops.
Elizabeth Tobias:It never, ever stops. And it's not like I saw the light and now life is beautiful and and rainbows and unicorns because it is not. It is, I've had constant challenges as we all have. And the one thing that I hold on to through all of it is knowing that it will get better, knowing that I will be okay. Let me frame that in a slightly different way.
Elizabeth Tobias:I have learned to know what I can control and what I can't control. And I do my very best to make all that it's like the serenity prayer. And it is the wisdom to know the difference, to do everything I can to change the things I can. And that I am committed to every single day of my life. And then I also try to have the serenity to accept the things I cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference.
Elizabeth Tobias:And so, you know, it's these little sayings, like, from Buddhism or the serenity prayer or other little pearl drops that I really hold on to as messages. So when I'm going through the dark times, the hard times, the difficult times, I know I can change what I can, and I and I will learn to accept the things I can't.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You've almost developed your own your own model when we talk, when Jen talks about, you know, sitting in sitting in discomfort. And and that takes courage. First of all, it takes courage to sit in the discomfort. And I think today, a lot of people want a quick, easy, fast workaround from the discomfort, and that's why we're not growing and learning as effectively as we could. But you've got this model of what I'm hearing is this really amazing circle.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I like triangles because they're really strong, but what I hear from you is a circle. And it's the what, so what, now what. And it's going around all the time. You're you're able to identify the what, the discomfort that comes in, the so what, I need to do something about it, and then now what, this is how I take that next step. And I keep those learnings with me and I just continually grow in this wonderful, holistically circular way.
Elizabeth Tobias:Yeah. Thank you so much because, you know, this is not to be taken as any kind of, critique of anybody else's path, but I know I want to just follow someone or follow something to not have to take the steps myself to go forward. But I have found that for me, it's been the most empowering and enriching to have the courage to to take the action steps myself, the now what? And that to me has been my path of resilience is the now what? And to, and to stay open to that even when, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, it was like, you know, I mean, the list goes on of this of the challenges that have come since then.
Elizabeth Tobias:But I do. I try to with that creative mind, that creative mindset, create, like, okay. Now what? What can I do next? What's possible?
Elizabeth Tobias:What can happen next? And stay open to that process.
Jenn Quader:It's a beautiful formula. And doctor Kelly Caliber, I love the circle. I think that's a a beautiful visual to put together on it. Elizabeth, I I, again, I remain inspired by you. And I think that those who might watch your career from afar would say, wow, look at that.
Jenn Quader:You know, resilience, resilience at every step. You know, you you've been in galleries. You've received national awards. You know, you've had this successful artistic career in spite of difficulties and all because you've done this work. I now wanna turn the spotlight for a minute to the big announcement that you gave to us in the TEDx, which is that you are now facing cancer.
Jenn Quader:And, I say that because I have a personal experience with cancer. My husband went through it and we were very fortunate, that he came through it. And then Doctor. Kelly Culver on the call also has a personal experience with cancer through her husband as well. And so with that shared, I'm gonna call it a demon, you know, the shared demon that we all have to face in that, I think I wanna ask Elizabeth, you know, this is your new trial to face.
Jenn Quader:What can you help people understand? You know, now our listeners have listened to you for a little bit. They know how you've come to your own resilience. As you face this new demon, what are you taking with you from your resilience journey and what can how can other people handle it when faced with something like cancer?
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh, thank you so much for bringing this up. You know, I am still processing this, you know, this reality that I'm facing. And on the one hand, I'm very fortunate that my cancer is the best case scenario of an incurable form of blood cancer. I lost my mother to a multiple myeloma, bone marrow cancer, when I was 29 years old. And when my mother passed away, I spent a few years being quite terrified that I would inherit the gene, that I would have it.
Elizabeth Tobias:And and then it was interesting as my career and and my life progressed, I genuinely forgot all about it. I just forgot. And then I started to not feel good. And I was having debilitating, debilitating migraines and fatigue, and I just did not feel good. And I was going to doctor.
Elizabeth Tobias:I was proactive. I'm like, okay, let's figure this out. Let's figure it out. Come on. Come on.
Elizabeth Tobias:And I never got the answer. And then quite accidentally, when I was not looking for this information, I was donating blood for a friend of mine who was dying of cancer. And donating blood made me really sick. I wasn't okay. I called the doctor and they said, well, let's get some labs.
Elizabeth Tobias:And then I'm sorry to to share it all, overshare. Now my dad died while all of this is happening. Literally, my father passed away, and then, my platelets came back very high. The doctor told me to go repeat the test. I didn't know what it meant.
Elizabeth Tobias:So I went to repeat the test, and I went off to go plan my father's funeral. And then on the day of his funeral, the doctors I'm getting a call from the doctor's office every, like, ten minutes or fifteen minutes. And then I'm starting the phone. I'm busy. And then I get in the car at the end of the day, and and I answered the call.
Elizabeth Tobias:And, she's like, well, you have to go see a hematologist. And I was like, oh my goodness. It was over. Like, I thought, okay. I've learned so many tools and so many skills.
Elizabeth Tobias:I I guess I have what I need to go through this, but it was too much even then. Even with all the skills I have, I I I was greeting my dad. I just wanted space for that. Like, how could this happen on the same day? It felt like a a weird final exam of consciousness, like, oh, god.
Elizabeth Tobias:What am I supposed to do with all of this shit?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yes.
Jenn Quader:Agreed. A final exam. I dig it.
Elizabeth Tobias:Yes. So, you know
Dr. Kelly Culver:It just is like, are you kidding me?
Elizabeth Tobias:I mean, the irony here's the weird irony. My nickname is ET, and my cancer is called ET. I'm like, that is so weird and me and creative to get a cancer of my name. Like, who does that?
Jenn Quader:And what a beautiful way to look at it. I mean, honestly, because even in just that statement, it's the same as my name.
Dr. Kelly Culver:You've accepted it. You're looking at it. You're facing it.
Jenn Quader:You know, that's that's talked about kind of, being down in the hole you know, like, the the two hundred and eighty million people that suffer from depression according to the World Health Organization, And everyone is on their their level of that. But I think when faced with a diagnosis like this, the idea that you can look at it and say, alright, you know, let me find that perspective through which I can look at it to bring it into my creative vehicles. You know, what a way to change perspective and to build resilience. I I do applaud that, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Tobias:Yeah. And of those two hundred and eighty million people that are struggling with depression, it affects women more than men. So, you know, and women I don't know if that's just because maybe women might talk about it more or because of our caregiving roles, but that does express, slightly more women on that scale. But, you know, I mean, now I am a few years out and I did not know if I would make it to Paris to do this talk. I didn't know if I could handle it physically.
Elizabeth Tobias:I mean, I lead a pretty normal life in in most ways and it's not life threatening right now. I just have limited energy or I get a lot of fatigue. And so doing this was like kicking ass. Like, I got to go back to Paris and kick ass and get on a plane like I did when I was a teenager, and be like, I'm alive. And that and going to Paris for me, for so many people is like a place, a headquarters of aliveness for so many people.
Elizabeth Tobias:And it's my headquarters of aliveness too. And, and it was so full circle. And I just did it. And it made me feel so encouraged to keep going because I'm like, am I gonna barf on the plane? Am I gonna get a migraine?
Elizabeth Tobias:Am I gonna not be able to give my talk because I feel sick? Am I gonna, you know, like, I just did not know. And and I paced myself. I didn't overdo it in Paris. I, rested a lot and and I'm so proud of myself.
Elizabeth Tobias:So my message is, please don't ever give up. Follow your heart because it gives you strength, it gives you vitality, and it gives you energy to keep going. And and it was, like, such a big challenge that it gave me such a huge jolt of energy, like, it's energized me now for quite a while. I feel like it's it's a paying it forward for me. I feel energized for a long time now to keep going.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Elizabeth, that's absolutely amazing. And you've you've lifted us up onto a whole other plateau of high by relating, you know, how you feel in that journey to Paris. And just, you know, we can see the sparkle in your eyes. We can see the transformation on your face. Now, because we're in such a good place, we like to close our podcast with rapid fire questions, and they're fun.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Are you ready? I am ready. Okay. Number one, what is your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh, I absolutely love the diving bell and the butterfly, and it is one of the most beautiful movies I've ever experienced in my life based on the most beautiful story of resilience and transformation. I love it. And I recommend, please, if you haven't, read the book or watch the movie. It's a transformative experience.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Thank you, and I will. What's your favorite song that makes you resilient or feel resilient to do your happy dance?
Elizabeth Tobias:You know, I was born in the sixties. I'm a child of the seventies. I'm folksy at heart. Pete Seeger is such a a wise man, and I love the song turn turn turn performed by the birds because, you know, it's from Ecclesiastes. It's from the Bible.
Elizabeth Tobias:I'm not into the Bible per se, but these are such wise words to just understand that there's a season for everything. There's a season for love and a season for hate and a season for joy and a you know, it just helps me. And that's one of those simple verses of wisdom that I turn to when things just don't make sense. It's a season of change.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's the last thing that made you laugh? Like, laugh out loud laugh.
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh my god. I did the funniest thing. And I would I still when I talk about it, it's so embarrassing. It's so humiliating, but it was so funny. I was a part of a community interfaith Passover Seder.
Elizabeth Tobias:And, you know, there's a lot of ritual foods on the Seder plate. And there was a food I've never seen before, and I thought it was an appetizer. Even though I'm Jewish, I host Passovers. And I, I saw this, and I thought it was an appetizer, and it represented the the olive of peace, and I'd eaten it. And so when we got to this part in the seder and I realized I ate the olive of peace oh my god.
Elizabeth Tobias:Oh my god. I was
Jenn Quader:That's another peace was already inside you, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth Tobias:That's what I said. I'm like, now the peace is within. But I was laughing, and then my whole table was laughing. We were crying laughing. And we kinda disrupted the Seder a bit because we were having such a moment of, like, hysterical laughter.
Elizabeth Tobias:And, and that is one of the funniest things that has happened to me in a long time. It was like a like a episode of a sitcom where I was like, oh, whoop, whoop, oh. And, and so, yes, I I ate the olive of peace, but I hope that it only helps me to share more peace and love with the world.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, well, you know, we can do a really good riff on that. So, you know, there's the quote from the Bible, the peace that passeth understanding. So that peace passed on to you, some understanding when you ate that olive. I love that story. That's hilarious.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Now, we have the final question for you, which is and this is the tricky one What is one question you would like to leave behind for a future guest?
Elizabeth Tobias:Well, I took that question. I hope this doesn't sound morbid because this is like, to me, a really compelling question. What would be your epitaph? You know? And you're talking about leaving with something.
Elizabeth Tobias:So I'm like, okay. What do you want to leave with? What is the message you would like to leave the earth with? So my question is what would be your epitaph? If that is okay to ask, I hope it's not too, like, weird, but
Jenn Quader:I think every business strategist says begin with the end in mind. So I think what what a beautiful way to begin your life's purpose than with your end in mind. It's beautiful. Well, Elizabeth, we want to say thank you. Doctor Kelly Culver and I love doing this podcast, but we love it most because we get to interview people just like you who we already love and now love even a little bit more because you've been so open and so honest.
Jenn Quader:And truly, we are inspired by your journey. We're inspired by your work. For all the listeners out there, you can find Elizabeth Tobias, and you will enjoy everything you see. Take a look at her at elizabethtobiasarts.com and elizabeth tobias arts on YouTube. Her work is beautiful, brilliant, and connected to resilience and community.
Jenn Quader:You can also find her on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook, with at Elizabeth Tobias. And then for resiliency the podcast, we ask that you please subscribe. You can find us on YouTube. You can find us on resiliencythepodcast.com, and then you can find us all over socials. This is the place to find stories, strategies, and inspiration on embracing change, overcoming challenges, and redefining resilience in the ever evolving world.
Jenn Quader:Find me. I am Jen Quater online at Jen Quater dot com or at Jen Quater on all the socials. And then find our illustrious doctor leader, doctor Kelly Culver. She is available at CulverGroup.CA. That's .CA because she is a Canadian resident.
Jenn Quader:And then also you can find her at doctor Kelly Culver dot com, and then on LinkedIn and Instagram on doctor Kelly Culver. As always, we thank you for listening. We bring love and resilience to you through our energy, and we hope you will tune in again to learn more about how you can stay resilient, stay strong, and enjoy your life. Much love.
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