Wealth Through Financial Resilience with Dan Meader
Welcome to today's episode of Resiliency the Podcast. I am your host, Jen Quater. I'm a global strategic communications expert and CEO of a PR firm called the Smart Agency. I am joined as always by our illustrious cohost, doctor Kelly Culver. Now doctor Culver is a renowned global leader.
Jenn Quader:She has more than three decades of experience as a director, an entrepreneur, a strategist and executive coach, and she's our resident doctor of resilience. Welcome Doctor. Culver. Happy to have you all.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Thank you.
Jenn Quader:Now, today, our listeners are in for something so educational, so important. And, we really were very honored to have today's guest. And I wanna start off today's show with a disclaimer. So today's show is not financial advice. We are not financial advisors.
Jenn Quader:And even though today's that's right. Thank you, doctor Kelly. But even though today's guest is a financial advisor, he recommends finding a trusted financial advisor to work directly with you and your money. Now with that out of the way, I am, I could drum roll this guy. You guys he it's really, really amazing.
Jenn Quader:Our guest today is the founding partner of Trinity investors. It's a private equity firm. It started in 1999. Now he leads the investment committee and the leadership team for Trinity. And he's also the lead partner on several of Trinity's investments.
Jenn Quader:And that means he's got skin in the game. He's an investor as well as an advisor. Now Trinity's current portfolio is valued at over $6,900,000,000. That includes 17 operating companies and over a 45 real estate holdings. And to date, Trinity's all time distributions to their investors is valued at $1,280,000,000.
Jenn Quader:Guys, we have a ton to learn. I am really, really excited to welcome mister Dan Meter of Trinity Investors. Welcome, Dan. How are you today?
Dan Meader:Wow. I I'm overwhelmed, Chad. And and, Kelly, I I will tell you that. I need you all to to come hang out with me more often. No.
Dan Meader:Thank thank you for first of all, thank you for having me. You know, it's always special to be able to talk about something that I have a passion for, and and investing and and how to invest, properly and appropriately is is something that I think we should all think about more than we do. So it's it's great to be with you all this afternoon.
Jenn Quader:What an honor. And I I do have to ask, did I how did I do on my disclaimer, Dan? You know, you're you're the expert here.
Dan Meader:You did great with the exception of of our standard rule, which is past performance does not reflect future results. Right?
Jenn Quader:Amen. Past performance.
Dan Meader:Just know that what future results are. That's that's another way of saying, we're all we all wake up every day, trying to learn more.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's a you know, this this topic is really near and dear to our hearts, and and we're taking it out on sort of a slightly different trajectory when we talk about you know, we're gonna learn a lot from you around financial resilience, financial literacy. But if you could maybe get us started, what does the word resiliency mean to you?
Dan Meader:Resiliency is a very simple word for me. It means long term investing. One of the things that that I am passionate about is, you know, there is no, silver bullet in the marketplace. You know, I think at times, people are are quick to believe that, hey. You know, there's an opportunity here.
Dan Meader:There's a there's a grossly miss missed valued asset. Right? I mean, I think think generally when you hear what I call the fish stories. Right? Somebody says, oh, you know, I bought this stock for 2 and it went to 200 or whatever.
Dan Meader:What, what they really don't talk about is the fact that the markets are reasonably efficient. What do we mean by efficient? That means that there's enough buyers and sellers, around most most types of investments so that if something was, mispriced even a little bit, let alone, dramatically, that that then someone would take advantage of that. The market would correct, meaning there would be more capital flowing from one direction to the other. So I do wanna say that to me, resiliency means long term investing.
Dan Meader:But having said that, I wanna start with one of my first wonderful questions for this afternoon, which is, what are the three most important words in the capital markets? The three most important words in the capital markets, and I want our listeners to remember this. If nothing more, I want you to remember these three words. Are you ready, ladies?
Jenn Quader:Yep. Oh, I'm so ready.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's just like a test. I'm ready.
Dan Meader:At what price?
Dr. Kelly Culver:At what price?
Dan Meader:So let's At what price? At what price? At what price? At what price? Put it let's put it to work.
Dan Meader:Dan.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. Okay.
Dan Meader:Do you like Apple? At what price? At what price? Dan, do you do you like real estate? At what price?
Dan Meader:What should I be in gold? At what price? So one of the things we have to really start to add to any discussion around resiliency and longer term investing is is really what do our investment goal is our is our goal to to for storage of value? Do we wanna buy something that we want for 50 years? Is it something that we wanna buy for two weeks?
Dan Meader:I mean, obviously, there's a lot of activity in the stock market. There's day traders. There's all those kinds of things. But as as investors, we wanna start take a deep breath. Remember that those such things are prelaunch, and the three most important words we always wanna ask at what price.
Jenn Quader:What a brilliant you know, they they say that brilliance lies in simplicity and and truly so, so simple and, and so clear, because one of the things we talk about a lot here at resiliency, the podcast is that really resilience is a lot about navigating change. It's navigating things that move all the time. And so at what price allows you to, to pinpoint through that change and, and, and, and then to make decisions that are relevant to it. And I love that you, you mentioned storage of value. I'd like to get into that.
Jenn Quader:One of the things though, that I think that I really, you know, and, and Dan and I had a chance to talk obviously before we got on the podcast. And I was really struck by how, how personally connected you are to those who invest with your company and how you see, your company as really a catalyst to help families to be able to create and protect their own wealth. So there's probably a lot of families listening, probably a lot of parents. How would you get us a family started with on the the concept of wealth creation?
Dan Meader:No. That's great. So let let's break that down into a couple of different different subtopics. One of them is obviously family, which generally goes with the word dysfunction. And and Yes.
Dan Meader:Damn. The other the other the other word or phrase, you know, is is wealth creation. Right? And so let's let's let's start maybe the second topic a little bit easier. So there's the concept of wealth preservation, which really means how do we how do we just maintain value right against inflation or, again, changes in in currency values and other things as opposed to wealth creation.
Dan Meader:Right? And if you remember, particularly in in the American culture, and I know we have some international listeners, but in the American culture, there's only two thing over the last two hundred and sixty years that have really shown the ability to create wealth over time. K? Not preserve wealth, but create wealth. And those are ownership of real estate and ownership of closely held companies or what many people call family businesses.
Dan Meader:Okay? So as we think about all different kinds of assets and, obviously, we have new assets like like, cryptocurrencies that have come on. But but if you look sort of over time and over over the history of of, capitalism or civilization, the two realities, that we see over and over again is is real estate, and it could be residential like your home. It could be land. It could be commercial real estate.
Dan Meader:And, certainly, we see a lot of capital flow in and out of of commercial real estate. Let's go back to the first topic, which is family, functional, dysfunctional. I think probably what is most important is is it starts with the kitchen table. I I have two adult children. I have a 28 year old daughter, 26 year old son.
Dan Meader:And for whatever reason, you know, we started talking about wealth preservation or, you know, how the capital market's worth, you know, early on. Right? And, you know, some people start with a lemonade stand. Other people start with the concept of a savings account or an allowance. I don't know if you remember, but I got an allowance, and I was always trying to get more of allowance.
Dan Meader:You know? So so the concept of of wealth really starts with sort of the concept of of money and and how do we use money. And so you would ask me to to consider some books for that I'd like I'd like readers to consider. One of my favorite really, I think this is foundational. It it's a book that came out, oh, at least ten years ago.
Dan Meader:It's called the psychology of money, the psychology of money, by Morgan Housel. And and and Morgan is really an interesting guy. He's written more than one book. But this particular book, the psychology of money, does a fantastic job of making it toward of a layman's discussion. Okay?
Dan Meader:And, really, it says, you know, what what role does money play? People have varieties of roles and varieties of perceptions around money. The use of it, the storage of it, the perceptions around, is it a good thing, is it a bad thing? And I think it starts by by saying, hey. Money's not a bad thing.
Dan Meader:Money money's a tool. Money's a commodity. But how do we, as individual, how do we have family? How do we have family, approach money? Right?
Dan Meader:And I think I think, ultimately, what I find fascinating about families is that they put money in the category of of politics and sex, which means you don't really talk about it unless you have to. And if you have to, you really don't say what you mean. And I I really don't want people to do that. Money, wealth creation, how the capital markets work. You have to have to have open conversations about that.
Dan Meader:I have a lot of clients with adult children, well educated, went to some of the best schools here in this country. And I say, you know, do you talk to your kids about wealth creation? Do your kids know what a good investment looks like? Do your kids have a sense of how to build an investment portfolio, and they just like, no. You know?
Dan Meader:I just wanna make sure my kid pays his credit card bill. Right? I'm still trying to get my kid off my cell phone plan. So I think that we have to be realistic that it starts by saying what what what are our baseline perceptions of money and wealth? Then, you know, to the extent we wanna start to have conversations with our children, our adult children, whatever, you gotta do it early, and you gotta do it often.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Well, I was just gonna jump in and ask both of your permission to to to spin off what Dan has just said about family and these discussions about money with family. You know, if you don't judge me for a minute because I've got two examples. I grew up on a farm And we talked about money all the time because it was, you know, what are the crops bringing in? How are we doing things? How are we making investments?
Dr. Kelly Culver:And my my grandparents, my mom's parents were from Northern Ireland. They came over as young young people to Canada. And my nana took me into a bank when I was 16, and she deposited a hundred dollars into a bank account, which she transferred over to me. And she said, I want you to promise me you'll make a monthly contribution to this for the rest of your life. Even if it's just $10 a month, when you work when you go to work, maybe you can increase that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:That was a long time ago as you can tell by the color of my hair. And that bank account, which is now, you know, it's an investment, is really substantial. It was really great advice. And the the other story is my husband passed away. And before that happened, we had a long conversation with our two adult sons about money, investments, inheritance.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And and we were never afraid to talk about what we might call the big, you know, dead, ugly, stinky moose that was sitting in the middle of the table, and we normalized it.
Dan Meader:So I gotta can I tell you a quick story about this that that dovetails on what Kelly said? So, you know, I started Trinity in May of nineteen ninety nine. You know, I put the dog outside when I'm making phone calls. I literally started my kitchen table and so, anyway, so my son, Zach, he's 26 now, but when he was five, I think five, it was take your son to work day. Right?
Dan Meader:I'm like, oh, man. This is gonna be just a an eruption. You know? I'm not a fireman. I'm not an astronaut.
Dan Meader:You know? It's one of these things where so one of the things that that, and and it was it was this experience that taught me this, Kelly, but but I remember, you know, I would come home. You know, when you work for yourself, you have good days and bad days. Right? And, I remember I I would come home every once in a while, and I would we'd sit down at our kitchen table.
Dan Meader:And something in fact, my wife would say, well, how's your day? And I'd say, yeah. We made some money today. Right? It was just an expression for we had a pretty good day.
Dan Meader:I mean, again, it's a little company. Yeah. And, you you know, some days you make money, some days you don't. So, anyway, so my five year old son, he has his little brief face. You know?
Dan Meader:I remember he wants to put a little clip on time. Of course, my wife has pictures all this. So he comes to my office. Right? So, of course, I'm just like, you know, there's the candy jar over there.
Dan Meader:Let's just, you know I'd already negotiated with my wife that he's gonna she's gonna come pick him up in, like, ninety minutes. Right? That we're not to do, and we we need to make some money today. Right? So, anyways Right.
Dan Meader:Zack Zack has some paper. So I'm handing him some paper and some crayons and stuff. And so he goes and sits at the table, and I and he goes to work. Right? And he's and he's looking at down his paper, and he's drawing some stuff.
Dan Meader:So, you know, I and I call him Zman. His name is Zach. Call him Zman. So I said, hey, Zman. You're you're pretty you work pretty hard there.
Dan Meader:What are you doing? He looks up at me and he goes, dad, I'm making some money. And he had broad little squares, you know, and he was drawing with green. You know? And what what what else for a five year old think?
Dan Meader:Right? I mean, when I sit down, I'm a my dad's I was gonna make some money. So just just remember, everybody comes from a different place when you start talking about money.
Jenn Quader:It's so wholesome. You know? It really is. There's a and I think that's what's so interesting because in the same world, there's this wholesomeness of both stories. You know, Kelly, you're talking about continuing a family, which is what we have to do because we do lose people.
Jenn Quader:And how do we continue them? And then Dan, you're talking about starting someone, you know, at five years old, how, how you see that. And I think it's fascinating because, it takes me back to what you said, Dan. You said that families put money in the category of politics and sex. And what that means is that they don't say what they mean.
Jenn Quader:And I think it's really interesting. And so I wanna point us towards something that you actually said to me. I thought it was a really good quote, and I wanna share it with our listeners and ask if you can kinda help them to understand this a bit. You said to me, when speaking about parents and their kids, your 25 is not their 25. So the the there's a big generational difference.
Jenn Quader:We all know this with the discussions of gen Z and generational wealth. So when, when you're looking at a family with, with, you know, this kind of dynamic, how do you help someone to, to talk about and say what they mean? And again, to your point, it's at what price? So that means it's changing all the time. How how do you help someone learn how to say what they mean around money knowing that their 25 is not their child's 25?
Dan Meader:Yeah. So it it and I appreciate you bringing that up because I think as as particularly as we as we get older, our perceptions about the world changes and, certainly, our perceptions about money change. And I think as a 62 year old, man, for me to go and and talk to my my 26 year old son about money, I'd I'd I can't be 26. Right? When I was 26, you know you know, if I had a hundred bucks in my pocket, I would I felt wealthy.
Dan Meader:Right? And so I think that it's on I I just don't think it's it's reasonable for for there to be, a bridge like, hey, Zach. You know, you need to save money. You know? You need to have six months of savings.
Dan Meader:You you know, there's sort of basic principles. You know? Kelly, I was thinking about your grandmother and the concept of compounding. Right? That the eighth wonder of the world is compounding.
Dan Meader:And what she was really saying is is that no matter what, savings is good and compounding is better. Right? So so I think probably what we have to do is if we're gonna talk to our kids about money, we have to start by saying, don't start by telling them what they should think. Start by asking them what they think. So it's not about, hey.
Dan Meader:Let's all let's both agree on how much you're gonna save every month. That is not the purpose of the discussion. The purpose of the discussion is to help them better understand their perception above it, their use of it, and and I think a lot of parents will will understand what I mean when I say this. I have one child, and I won't use their names, obviously. I have one child that's a spender, and I have one child that's a saver.
Dan Meader:That's Oh, yeah. I know. Their nature. That's their nature.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Me too.
Dan Meader:So so, you know, so what what do I do? Right? Do I when I talk to my spender, I talk about consumption and and caps. Mhmm. And when I talk to my saber, I talk about investing, and let's not be so bearish on the world.
Dan Meader:So so personality plays a big role here in how people look at this kind of stuff.
Jenn Quader:Dan, you're you're talking to something that's really fascinating to me in the world of resilience. And and that is and we talk about it a lot here. Like, it's not just created of you. It is also coming from others. And and what you're talking about is listening, you know, and it's such a core tenant of leadership of good leadership.
Jenn Quader:And you're someone who leads at a big level. And so I'm interested in, you know, when you tell you say, don't tell them what to think, ask them what to think. I find that so fascinating. Can you speak to then how you you know, we're talking about family, and about creation of wealth. How do you then, get people to look at that preservation, at that compounding, at that growth of wealth and have a a better taste in their mouth for it.
Dan Meader:Okay. So so, again, let's let's let's talk a little bit more about preservation of capital. You know, we touched on the concept of of wealth creation versus wealth preservation. I I actually think the best way to talk about wealth preservation is talk about cars. Right?
Dan Meader:So Oh, really? One of the things that generally comes up, some way between some age and another age is, hey. I want a car. I wanna buy a car. I wanna have a car.
Dan Meader:And so then the question becomes, who's gonna pay for the car? Right? I know I know that's a Yeah. That's a crazy idea. And then somebody always says, who's gonna pay for the insurance, the gas, and dah dah dah dah.
Dan Meader:Right? Yeah. So so let's start with a concept that that that let's let's not confuse consumption with investments. Right? Because I think Mhmm.
Dan Meader:Bullet and this is really where where I I wish people could would think more about this, but but but borrowing money to buy a car is really not a good idea. And then let's ex let's think about that. Let's unpack that. I mean, a car is is a liability. A car is a depreciating asset.
Dan Meader:Now, obviously, there's Porsches and there's Ferraris, McLaren. There's certain kinds of cars that you could say, oh, damn. There's a classic car. But I'm saying for for just transportation, the idea is is that you that car depreciate. They become worth less and less and less and less.
Dan Meader:So so if we're trying to be thoughtful about money, why would we borrow money to buy something that's gonna be worth less and less and less and less? Right? The concept is if we're gonna employ leverage, leverage is is its own concept. You're applying leverage to buy something that's going to make more and more worth more and more and more and more. So so I think that when we start to sort of break down and say, well, what's wealth creation and what's wealth preservation, I think we have to start by saying, hey.
Dan Meader:Listen. The reality of of of a car is its its cost per mile. Right? It's it's a it's a luxury. We can take the bus.
Dan Meader:We can walk, ride our bikes. But at the end of the day, we should approach transportation and say it's a cost per mile. Now I'm not I'm not saying you shouldn't have a loan to buy a car or use I actually I I lease cars because I don't like to own cars. I don't like to own things that are worth less. I like to own things that are worth more.
Dan Meader:So I think I think, ultimately, it's it's reframing your thinking around sort of how the world works versus how you should look. Now, you know, there's books like the millionaire millionaire next door. There's other books that talk about savings, and they talk about consumption and this idea that you wanna save more than you consume. And then that's that's like diet. It it the one thing that cracks me up about diets is it's real simple.
Dan Meader:If you consume more calories than you burn, you get bigger. Right? Same thing. If you save more than you spend, then your bank account gets bigger. It's real simple math.
Dan Meader:So that's your point about wealth creation and wealth, really sort of preserving wealth. I I think it's important that we say, okay. Transportation is important. It's consumption. But can we start and I I like Kelly's concept.
Dan Meader:Can we start with savings? Can we start with simple investing? Can we start with the idea that over the next five years, we wanna have a savings goal, we wanna have an investment goal? And, again, the concept being that it's not gonna happen overnight, but it gets us down the path of wealth creation. Right?
Dan Meader:And and really and it's interesting. It goes back to nature. There's you know, I had a paper route when I was a kid. Right? I always wanted to I just wanna have some money in my pocket.
Dan Meader:Right? Because it's part of my self worth, I guess. But but from an early age, I was like, how do I turn a dollar into 2? How do we how do we sort of make something happen here? And everybody's not built that way.
Dan Meader:And I think if people are more conservative or they're concerned or or less comfortable talking about money, then let's just get them on that savings slow investing path. We every path doesn't have to be the same here to get people into the wealth creation and and preservation business.
Jenn Quader:I wanna repeat that. Every path does not have to be the same to get people into the wealth creation and preservation business. That is that's hugely insightful for me, Dan, because I think that there's I think there's a lot of societal groupthink that says there's one way to the top. You know? And, and I think that this is it.
Jenn Quader:It's really interesting. I wonder if you would dive for just a minute more, because this is a new concept for me on a concept you call storage of value. And can you explain that concept and help people to, to understand what what is a storage of value opportunity? How do they find that? What what what is that?
Jenn Quader:What are they looking for with regard to that?
Dan Meader:Alright. So so first of all, I gotta tell you another story. Is that okay? Is that what I'm gonna tell you?
Jenn Quader:Please. We love stories. Yeah. You bet. And Dan Meter's stories are the best stories.
Jenn Quader:So we're ready.
Dan Meader:Alright. So one of one of the classic questions in my business, right, is if you could only own one thing, what would it be? Right? So I've invested in a lot of things over the last forty years, and some of them have been good and some of them not so good. But I've I've actually put a lot of thought, and if I could only own one thing, what would it be?
Dan Meader:And I've decided, and I'm here to announce today on this show, that if I could only own one thing, it would be the land it would be the landfill in Okeechobee, Florida.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Okay. Why? Explain yourself.
Dan Meader:Just just real Loved it. Just real simple. Alright? So so one of the things that cracks me up about the media at times is these concepts that that that we're gonna run out of landfills. Right?
Dan Meader:Because I'm just telling you right now that if you and you just went to Indiana and and you dug a hole one mile each way, one mile deep, you could seal you could take all the trash America does for Anyways, so the concept is that no one wants a landfill next to their house. Yep. No one wants a prison next to their house. No one wants a landfill next to their house. Right?
Dan Meader:So one of the realities is that that waste hauling is about it's about shipping. It's about cost per mile. Right? And so the reality is that if you if you have a landfill and there's no other landfills close and nobody wants to let a landfill open up next door, Then if you have something that's that's geographically protected and really is not subject to obsolescence, victory, baby. So Victory, I respect
Dr. Kelly Culver:it. Like a scarcity thing. You're employing the scarcity principle.
Dan Meader:Gets back to what what what what retains value over time. Now let me just say financial assets generally depreciate with inflation. Right? Inflation is insidious. We don't want inflation.
Dan Meader:The fed is built, protects us against inflation. But, you know, real estate over time generally stores value. Right? So let's go back to Kelly's example. I mean, you know, farmers, generally, they like to have farm ground.
Dan Meader:One one example I got clients in Iowa, and it's it's not farmland, it's farm ground. Mhmm. It's farm ground. And so some people think storage value could be in land, which which I think it could be. I think some people think storage value, could be in certain kind of commodities.
Dan Meader:You have things that are called royalty interest where people will own minerals. Right? One of the unique things about The United States is that private people can own, you know, minerals. You can't do that in most of the world. So some people think minerals like some people think con you know, concepts like gold or other things.
Dan Meader:I I'm not I'm not trying to advocate for a one specific asset. I was trying to say, if if if you you want on something for 50 years, what would it look like? And and what what's gonna what what is it about that asset is gonna make it worth something for fifty years? I wanna go back to you, Kelly. One of the things that you learned about Canadians is that they all have a lake house or they have some kind of a house on some Guilty.
Dan Meader:Lake that nobody knows the name of that but but if you think about it Erie? There you go.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Heard of Lake Erie?
Dan Meader:But at the end of the day, you know, a a resort property could could be worth I mean, it may not be it it's storage of value. Right? I mean, it it the idea it's not just storage of value. It's just storage of memory. Right?
Dan Meader:And so if you keep going to a place and you keep going to a place and the value of that little cabin, economically may depreciate a little bit. But in terms of it, it it's value to the family. It it maintains itself time after time after time. I I I really think particularly in a in a world that continues to be more isolating, I think it's important for people to really start to talk about where can we go manufacture memories, where can we go gather, which is another book that I love. It's a book I just recently came across about how to gather and how to gather more successfully.
Dan Meader:But I really want people to add to their storage and value equation. How does this help us build memories, build connectivity, to to what we want our family to be?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Well You're teaching us that things you know, about assets, if we use the word assets. And it isn't just money. Assets can be things, but assets can be people. And and you've helped people through sort of generational turnover, generational change. And I think that's a great piece of advice to anybody listening is that some of your some of our best assets are the memories that we have or the memories we choose to make with people who matter.
Dr. Kelly Culver:It's priceless.
Dan Meader:Yeah. Yeah. And and and and as a capitalist, and I am a capitalist, I I'm not here to say, oh, let's get super sappy and, you know, think about the the the listen. I I want people to to to to store value in things that they appreciate, not just just hold value. But when you get into these fifty year discussions or twenty five year discussions, if you don't take into account your values and your connections with with people that matter to you, then then you're being foolish.
Jenn Quader:Well, and and beyond that, it matters to every part of your life, which is what I'm hearing. And, I mean, I I myself am a capitalist. I I believe in the power of compounding. I believe in the power of compounding. I believe
Dan Meader:that that that that a lot of that
Jenn Quader:comes from the infrastructure that has been placed, you know, into our economic world. But I'm interested in kind of this emotional aspect of money. I think that's a huge part of money. And and, you know, there's certainly the emotional aspect of the stress of of a scarcity mindset. But then there's this beautiful emotional aspect where you're talking about, you know, when you are strategically planning to use your money, think about the memories you're gonna make with the people you love.
Jenn Quader:Now that brings me to another question that that we have, but it's really an interesting one because as you think about that, it it ties back to you talking about how a lot of families don't really talk about money. And the the question is why when, when, when, in order to make that money, you know, you told that story about Z man coming to your office at age five, and you said that you'd come home and you were working really hard and you'd say we make some money today, but you were working really hard. Why are we so uncomfortable talking about money when we all work so hard?
Dan Meader:Well, that's simple. Because money is keeping score. Right?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Mhmm.
Dan Meader:I mean, ultimately, you know, if you think about a way the way our culture works, you know, why why do people buy Porsches when they can, you know, buy Hondas? Well, because it it becomes a part of their personal brand, and and it becomes a part of who they who they want people to see them as or or to remember them for. So so I think that the uncomfortableness around money is is really more about, sort of how does it how does it how does it build into who you want people to see you, and and how you wanna be perceived. And, listen, we need to be direct about this. You know, people that are financially successful, carry a higher status.
Dan Meader:They carry a it it you know, people look up to people that that that create wealth. And and, you know, I I'm not I'm not discouraging anyone from having, you know, making money as a goal in life. I I just think you can't let it consume you. Here's another number. You know, I'm a numbers guy.
Dan Meader:So another number that I want people to remember is 78,000 that generally in this culture, place adjusted. Once you make about $78,000 a year, your basic needs are met. Now I'm not I'm talking to you have student loans or this or that, but but once you sort of get to that level, then then then above that, it's like, well, do I want a nicer car, or do I wanna live in a nicer house, or do do I wanna travel more? Maybe wear a nicer nicer set of clothes. But but, you know, sort of in that Maslow's hierarchy of needs concept, you know, being able to sort of get through life and and and survive is is not a huge amount of money.
Dan Meader:Now I don't wanna belittle the fact that that there are a lot of people that that have to live and learn to live on less than that. But but I think probably what makes money so uncomfortable is is how it forces people to to say is how is money gonna define who I am and and and how I want people to to see me. And and I think that's really the decision you've gotta make, which is okay. You know, do I wanna do I wanna drive a fancy car? Do I wanna be seen as someone that's financially successful?
Dan Meader:Well, you know, we all we learn this in elementary school. Right? You know, people that are that are jerks, people that that treat people poorly, you know, whether they're rich or poor, they're jerks. Right? And I think that we have to make sure that that that our desires to to sort of be more financially successful, don't necessarily change who we are.
Dan Meader:Right? There's a there's an expression that I'm in I'm sure maybe you're hearing that money changes demand. Money changes demand or the woman. But I would say, yeah. Definitely.
Dan Meader:Certainly, liquidity events do. I I I absolutely believe that money can change demand. But I think if you think about it and you worry about it right? What's that old phrase? You know, why do we wear our seat belts every day?
Dan Meader:Right? Because we live in fear of the accident. Right? We wear our seat belts every day in fear of the accident. Because, really, if we knew that they were having the accident, I call them, and I have an accident by wearing my seat belt.
Dan Meader:Right? That doesn't work. If we live in fear that money will change us negatively, then we're gonna be fine. Well, let's wear our seatbelt every day. Let's remember that money can and might change our perceptions of who we are and how we interact with the world.
Dan Meader:But if we if we if we say, hey. Come on. Let's not let that happen, then I think we'll be okay. And and and that certainly has been my personal experience. I think for the people that I find that have accumulated wealth but still in my mind think are living successfully and living happily, it's because they they they haven't let that that that that that the money or the conception or the brand building, they haven't let it affect who they wanna be.
Jenn Quader:I mean, look. There there's so many ways to take that because immediately I see the Kardashians in my head. You know what I mean? Like that's an American staple of like money that is a brand. And so I, I think that what you're giving is, is the opposite of that.
Jenn Quader:And that's, and I'm really attracted to that, which is to say like, you can make money decisions and you can have plenty of money and it is your choice or any individual's choice, whether or not they want to use that to, to define themselves as a brand. What do you, I'm gonna throw throw one in on you, Dan, because you're so good as, you know, it's it's an easy talk back and forth. But my question is like, what do you think of gen Z? What do you think of this generation who is bombarded with this money as status drive these cars, do these things? Generationally, how are they looking at money, and where could they where could they improve?
Dan Meader:Well, a couple of things there. First of all, I have I I have a Gen z child, so I I I caveat this by saying I'd obviously, I'm gonna be biased sort of by by the the experiences I've had with with with him and with his friends. Generally, I think what comes with all these various choices and various temptations, is a greater knowledge. Right? I think I think gen z's generation is probably smarter than than than than my generation.
Dan Meader:Certainly, when you ask me to find something on my phone, you'll see that in spades. But I I I don't necessarily think that any particular generation has more of a challenge to deal with with money or or the use of money than any other challenge. I mean, you know, people left Northern Ireland because they were starving. Right? I mean, one of the ways you don't have to worry about money is when you have none.
Dan Meader:Right? So Mhmm. So there's there's all different sort of generational realities that that shape people's perception of of well success and money. I I would say from a Gen zer's perspective, what I find is that they're valuing their time more than their money. And I think that's that's something that that I I struggle with as a business owner.
Dan Meader:I have a lot of Gen z employees. I'm like, what do you mean you're leaving at 05:00 today? Right? You know? So I I have to be careful here because, you know, you know, this this this sort of the concept that that that we're all gonna grind together.
Dan Meader:Doesn't doesn't go as far as it used to.
Dr. Kelly Culver:No. It doesn't.
Jenn Quader:Well, and, Dan, you've had a key point of why we why truly, honestly, Kelly Colver, Jen Quater, why we're sitting here making resiliency the podcast, because whether it's gen Z or, or any generation, there is a little like over societal feeling of like, why do we have to work so hard? And, and I think that, that there's a real answer to why we have to work so hard and it, it is in the, you know, the grind is what gets us to the benefits. So if I ask you that, Dan, why do we have to work so hard? What are the benefits of, of, of all of this wealth creation and preservation Tell you know, tell us the benefits of of what happens when you put that shoulder to the wheel and do the work.
Dan Meader:Well, for I guess for me, it's a little bit easier maybe than others because if you love what you do, then it's not really work. Right? I mean, I I guess I have a passion for what I do. You know, I'm a a chartered financial analyst. I'm a CPA.
Dan Meader:I mean, I I like numbers. I like I like to know how much things cost. I I'm just gonna give one more anecdote just because I'm idiosyncratic and and you invited me in the show. I love it. When I walk into a restaurant this drives my wife crazy.
Dan Meader:When I walk into a restaurant, I build an income statement. Right? I count the number of seats. I estimate the the average ticket. I say, okay.
Dan Meader:I think they're gonna do about $4,000 a shift. Labor's gonna cost that. I you know, I think he walks I think he walks lunch today with 1,200 in his pocket.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I just You can't help yourself, can you?
Dan Meader:That's what I do. I mean, why why why shouldn't we estimate how much a guy made on the lunch shift today? So if if we can go to what we like, if we can go to what we enjoy, then then it yeah. I mean, there are days when I don't particularly like what I have to do at the office, but but, ultimately, it goes back to your definition of work. Right?
Dan Meader:I mean, I think and I think this is really important. I think this is probably one of the most important things we wanna convey is that if you find yourself really bogged down with work, work this, work that, It it really goes to what I think is is an incongruity in your life, which is either a, you're doing something that you don't like. Okay. Why is that? Right?
Dan Meader:First first real simple rule is the reason that people get paid a lot of money is either they could do something that other people can't do or they could do something that other people won't do. Right? Those are the real simple reasons why people make more money. So so if you're sitting there and saying to yourself, I hate my job. I'm not making any money.
Dan Meader:Then I think you gotta unpack that and say, well, what would I like to do? And could I get paid more for what I like to do? And and, you you we work work is relative. Right? I mean, I I enjoy my work.
Dan Meader:Right? I I like my clients. I I like the opportunity to make investments, but, ultimately, I just like what I do. I think that's important for people to ask that question. Do I like what I do?
Jenn Quader:Yeah. Well and you like it so much that you do it at at the restaurant. You know, like, that's what I love is is it's it's it's a it's a passion. You have found the thing that bubbles. You found the thing that gives you momentum.
Jenn Quader:And I think that that that speaks to a lot of resilience. But then also I heard you say, and I think this is something I like to say a lot to people is like, it, it, it ain't all fun. Even if you're working in your passion, work is work is work. Work is tough. And, and so you do have to, to go through those days that are tough and you have to find your grit and you have to, as Doctor.
Jenn Quader:Kelly likes to say, put on your pants of steel and get up in the morning and do that work. But it sounds like the benefit is, is, is a lot more stability and security within that family unit as dysfunctional as it may be. But but security and knowing you can make those memories and you can, you know, grow your family in the way that you would like.
Dan Meader:So I'm gonna bring it back to resiliency. Right? Because as Please. As my podcast, I'm it's very important that we come back to that Because really and truly, let's look at it this way.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I love it.
Dan Meader:I'm a damn fan. If you like what you're doing and you're not yet making enough, be resilient to stick with it. And if you don't like what you're doing, then have the courage and resiliency to go find something that doesn't feel as much like work.
Jenn Quader:Amen. That is true resiliency. True resiliency is being able, I think, to exactly what you said, like walk through it. If it, if it's right for you or jump out of it, if it's not. And, and either way it takes bravery.
Jenn Quader:It takes courage. But I agree. And I think that's a huge part of why we have these conversations and why Dan you're such a great guest to have because money is something that touches every part of our life. I will be honest. I cried to my husband about money this morning.
Jenn Quader:I was like, we're talking bad about money and I'm crying this morning because money is emotional. It feels. And I loved what you said earlier. It's keeping score. It feels like you're keeping score.
Jenn Quader:I think, I think what I wanna ask before we get into the, the really fun part of our show, which is moving into kind of the rapid questions, because you as, as a wonderful, as, as, as part of the resiliency, the podcast family, you brought it back to resiliency. So I want to ask, you've given us a lot of amazing stories, some really cool, like, sayings that I'm going to write on post it notes and put up on, you know, on my, on my wall. But as someone who, again, your company has $6,900,000,000 in assets. You've, you've given out 1,280,000,000.00 in distributions to investors. So now I wanna ask for some resiliency advice.
Jenn Quader:We asked you how you divine. We, we asked you how you defined it. We've you've talked through kind of the, the, the mechanics of the money part, but, you know, to someone who this morning was feeling this stress of money, and yet I want to be resilient. What's your advice on how to be resilient when it comes to a money mindset?
Dan Meader:No. That's simple. Let's go back to numbers. Six one three. Six six months of savings.
Dan Meader:Gotta have six months of savings. Right? If we if we're if we're struggling for grocery money, it it's that you're in a different world. Right? I mean, six months savings, six months of expenses and savings.
Dan Meader:One, we set our financial goals once a year. Right? What do we wanna try to what's our savings goal for the year? The world changes. Life changes.
Dan Meader:Everything changes. But every year, we should go ahead and say, okay. What's my goal for savings this year? Maybe what's my budget? I'm a I'm a big fan of of personal budgets.
Dan Meader:And then three three is every three years, you really have to say, am I making progress? Right? It kinda gets back to financial planning and and working with a a financial professional that, you know, this idea that we get up and I'm gonna start saving today, you know, and, you know, and all this and that. That's that's noble. It's wonderful, but but 613.
Dan Meader:I wish I knew the area code for 613 because that would help with remember it.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Ottawa. Boom. Ottawa, Canada. Oh,
Jenn Quader:I got that.
Dan Meader:Canada. What?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, yeah. Ottawa.
Dan Meader:Six One Three.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Is 613.
Dan Meader:Hey. Real quick. I wanna pitch two quick books. One of the other books we yeah. I was talking early about cars and cost per mile.
Dan Meader:There's a great book that I found, and it's hard to find because it's so I actually have to buy these when I can. It's called Too Much of a Good Thing. It's about how to raise your children and think more about money. It's by a guy named Dan Kindlo, k n d l o n. Too Much of a Good Thing by Dan Kindlo Kindloan, k I n d l o n.
Dan Meader:It's hard to find. It's not but but what is it really goes right at? How do we teach our kids? And it it actually talks about putting a contract with your kid together when you get a card. Great stuff.
Dan Meader:And the last thing, and I love this book. I love Michael Lewis. We love Michael Lewis.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yes. We love Michael Lewis.
Dan Meader:We love Michael Lewis.
Dr. Kelly Culver:The big short, Liar Liar.
Dan Meader:Love him. But his first book his first book Liar's Poker is my favorite. And here's why. Not only because, generally, first books are kind of the best if people are good at their craft, But it talks about the capital markets. Right?
Dan Meader:So we've talked about money and preservation. They said that kind of funds flow and Wall Street and how's Wall Street work. He tells some great stories. I mean, I'm a huge fan of everything Michael Lewis writes, but go back to Loner's Poker. He wrote it in the late eighties, early nineties, but introduces you to Wall Street, some concepts, and some ideas.
Dan Meader:I don't know. I just I just think Michael Lewis is fabulous. Read everything, but but go back to his his first book. Gotta go back to his first book.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Every book Michael Lewis has ever read is, that you just read his whole portfolio
Dan Meader:because he's one
Dr. Kelly Culver:of my favorite authors on the planet.
Dan Meader:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Kelly Culver:And I I've got a question for you, and it might push us over the time limit. You know, we allocate sixty minutes, but I
Dan Meader:I gotta do it.
Dr. Kelly Culver:I gotta do it. So you gave us the number 613. And I as a Canadian, I wanna ask you about the number four.
Dan Meader:Okay.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So we're recording this episode at the October. And as people are listening to us, your country is in the middle of the US presidential election and hasn't yet been decided. So what role does politics play in wealth creation? Then we'll move into our rapid fire question.
Dan Meader:You know what? I I I do appreciate you bringing this up, and I know that I'm speaking before the election and you're get people are gonna get us after. The answer is that I'm agnostic to to politics. What I what I care a lot about is tax taxes. Right?
Dan Meader:I mean, obviously, tax efficiency is important. You know, municipal bonds are obviously, you know, a classic example of that. Obviously, you know, four zero one k's or or other kinds of savings accounts that defer defer taxes are always a good thing. So so I would say that that, it's most important as we continue to to think about wealth and build wealth that that that tax efficiency becomes important, and so we wanna pay attention to that. What I have found historically in my forty years of voting is that neither party really wants to do anything more than tax and spend.
Dan Meader:So I think we just need to watch taxes, regardless about the wins.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. Tax and spend as opposed to growth and innovation because that's different.
Dan Meader:Can be. Yeah. We want our portfolios to grow and be innovative.
Jenn Quader:Correct.
Dan Meader:Alright.
Jenn Quader:Alright. Okay. Are we ready, Jen? I'm ready for rapid. Okay.
Jenn Quader:Dan, are you ready for rapid? I'm always ready.
Dan Meader:I was born ready.
Jenn Quader:He's always ready for rapid. It's true. We can tell. It's awesome. I look.
Jenn Quader:I do wanna say real quick. I wanted to just let our listeners know because Dan has mentioned several wonderful books on this episode. They will be in the show notes. And then I just wanna say to Dan before we go into rapid fire that it's a really cool example of what a what a good and resilient leader is to have so many other books that you look to to be constantly learning. So I always like to remind our audience, constant learning is a beautiful way to find resilience.
Jenn Quader:Now rapid fire questions with doctor Cali Gevirt. Let's do that.
Dr. Kelly Culver:What's your favorite movie or TV show that makes you feel resilient?
Dan Meader:Oh, that was simple. Andy Dufresne from Shawshank Redemption without exception. Stephen King wrote the novella. Tim Robbins. Oh my gosh.
Dan Meader:Go watch that movie tonight. You can't beat it.
Jenn Quader:I agree. It's a classic. Classic.
Dr. Kelly Culver:How about your favorite song that makes you feel resilient?
Dan Meader:You know, I thought a lot about this one, and and this cracked me up. I was talking to my one of my Gen z assistants, that And she
Dr. Kelly Culver:didn't know the band.
Dan Meader:So yeah. So it's like and and I think she I don't know if she's Canadian. You know what Alanis Morissette? Yeah. She's Canadian.
Dan Meader:Though. Anyways
Jenn Quader:It's from Iowa. Code.
Dr. Kelly Culver:From the six one three area code.
Dan Meader:She has a song called ironic.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Yeah. She does.
Dan Meader:I love that song, and I think it reminds us to be resilient.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, yeah.
Dan Meader:Is she Canadian, by the way? I could
Dr. Kelly Culver:I forgot. She's Canadian. She's from Ottawa.
Dan Meader:She's from
Dr. Kelly Culver:the 613
Dan Meader:area. Baby. It's all coming together. It's all coming together.
Dr. Kelly Culver:Oh, man. This is getting weird. Okay. Fabulous. So what's the last thing that made you laugh?
Dan Meader:I'm sorry. What what what made you laugh?
Dr. Kelly Culver:Last thing that made you laugh?
Dan Meader:What we just talked about. The fact that Okay. Atlanta Smores said is is Tramonta and and and I I picked her song that that just cracks me up.
Jenn Quader:Okay. And the six one three. Pretty it's pretty amazing. Right. Mhmm.
Dr. Kelly Culver:So I on a on a, you know, maybe a slightly more serious note, what's a question that you'd like to leave for future guests?
Dan Meader:Oh, simple. Do you worry about money? And if so, why? Unpack that. You know?
Jenn Quader:Oh, man.
Dan Meader:Did this reflection. Let let's let's go to that. Let's start with ourselves. Look in the mirror, and and let's get over the fear of talking about it, the fear of thinking about it. And then from there, we can we can expand that to our loved ones.
Jenn Quader:Love it. So inspired. Dan, we have a prior guest who's left one question for you, and that question is this. Have you done any good today?
Dan Meader:You know, I did because I told my wife I'd take her out for dinner tonight, and she just was like, oh my gosh. What a great idea. That's perfect. Well, we know you're gonna
Jenn Quader:make an income statement while you're out.
Dan Meader:I I will I will figure out whether they make money, while it's sitting there.
Jenn Quader:Oh, Dan. What a joy. Really, you you've you've given, and I would say that, when your question comes up, if you're worried about money, why? I might tell whoever's if they say yes, I might tell them to listen to this episode because Dan, you've given us beautiful, beautiful nuggets of wisdom, some amazing things to take with us. Will you please let our listeners know where could they find you if they wanted to follow you, learn more about your company?
Dan Meader:Yeah. So sure.
Jenn Quader:Where can they find you?
Dan Meader:Yeah. Trinityinvestors.com. We've got a pretty active website. We also have a LinkedIn page. That that would be the best.
Dan Meader:I mean, I'd listen. I'd I I want people to advocate for financial literacy and just thinking more about it. So, you know, trinityinvestors.com is fine. But but that's your point. Psychology of Money, man.
Dan Meader:Read that book. If, you know, if you're worried about money, read that book, and you will worry about it less.
Jenn Quader:That's what we want. Make more memories. Make more memories. Seek out those opportunities. Dan, we cannot thank you enough.
Jenn Quader:And to all of our listeners, thank you for being here. If resilience is something that you care about and you're looking for, we ask that you please like the episode you're listening to. Give us a subscribe on YouTube. Every one of those helps us to keep this resilience momentum moving forward. Resiliency the podcast is the place to find stories and strategies and inspiration on how to embrace change and overcome challenges and redefine resilience in today's ever evolving world.
Jenn Quader:As always, I'm Jen Quader. You can find me online at Jen Quader, j e n n q u a d e r. On all the socials, you can find me at JenQuader.com and with my company, thesmartagency.com. And then our wonderful Doctor. Kelly Culver, very near the 613 in Canada.
Jenn Quader:You can reach her at theculvergroup.CA again, that's .CA for Canada also at Doctor. Kelly Culver on LinkedIn and Instagram. Guys, it is our pleasure and our honor to talk resiliency today and to share all of that with you. We invite you listeners to keep listening. In the meantime, stay resilient.
Jenn Quader:Be strong. We love you guys. Have a great day.
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